Eden Hazard

[Craig_H]

In which case, if there are loopholes which will be so easy to exploit, why go ape at Arn on the basis that we 'cant' do what he suggested, when clearly, we apparently can?

For the record, i'm not having a go at Lec or anyone, on paper, it's clear we cant spend more than we generate - but the point is, does what's on paper equate to what will apply in reality?

If MCFC are allowed to flout the FFP rules, then it makes the whole point of FSG buying LFC nigh-on redundant.

[BringbackBiscan]

Yes, you're right, no 'armchair manager' has ever heard of wages.

How utterly condescending

In fairness when so many 'armchair manager's' throw around the comment "we could have bought Aguero for £35m instead of Carroll" then it's hard not to be condescending.

[Craig_H]

It's really not hard at all.

[RichC]

I think the problem is that nobody really knows what's going to happen with these rules and loop holes will be found as we get closer to it coming into play.

Depends whether UEFA close them off and enforce this properly or not, you hope they will but have a strong feeling they won't, Arns logic though seems to be spend, spend, spend with no clear plan apart from spending huge sums of money on players who may or may not make the difference.

Having Sheik Mansoor at City leaves City in a position where they can spend what they like as it's of no consquence to the level he's spending (FFP we need to see how and if it works) and the reality with us is that FSG will want a return and therefore unsustainable spending makes no sense.

And we've spent pretty well since they've come in but in a smart way, we now have decent squad depth and hopefully we look to get in 1 or 2 game changers which can be done within our spending capacity IMO

[Craig_H]

I think the problem is that nobody really knows what's going to happen with these rules and loop holes will be found as we get closer to it coming into play.

Depends whether UEFA close them off and enforce this properly or not, you hope they will but have a strong feeling they won't, Arns logic though seems to be spend, spend, spend with no clear plan apart from spending huge sums of money on players who may or may not make the difference.

Having Sheik Mansoor at City leaves City in a position where they can spend what they like as it's of no consquence to the level he's spending (FFP we need to see how and if it works) and the reality with us is that FSG will want a return and therefore unsustainable spending makes no sense.

And we've spent pretty well since they've come in but in a smart way, we now have decent squad depth and hopefully we look to get in 1 or 2 game changers which can be done within our spending capacity IMO

I think Arn's point is that you'll genuinely only really be a serious challenger for the league if you go bat**** with the spending - and i dont think he's wrong either. Ultimately, nobody who wins the PL nowadays, does it without having gone mad with spending money.

Regarding FSG, yes of course they want a return and i dont begrudge them that, but in the interim, even to just qualify for the CL, they need to spend a ****load. £40m net is leaving it touch and go and whilst there's no way of guaranteeing anything, you can all but guarantee success (to varying levels) the more you spend - eg, everyone agrees (and probably agreed a year or two ago) that City will, at some point, win the title - because they kept spending and spending and eventually, a bit like trial and error, you'll get there.

Coming back to us - i think we're on the cusp now of getting into the CL, we'll either do it or miss out by not much.

If we identified the right players, then i dont think it's radically beyond the pale for FSG to spend maybe another £40m-£50m net in January, because whilst they want a return and that's obviously fair enough, their returns will be infinitely bigger if they turn us back into a club that is in the CL year in, year out. In the interim, that is something that arguably still needs to have significant cash spent on it, before it'll happen.

What i'm unsure of, is whether FSG's splurge this summer just gone is basically it, or if they're willing (i know they are able) to fund another splurge should it be necessary.

I'm not saying spend bucketloads with no consideration for anything, i'm saying if it becomes apparent that it's needed (and IMO it still is), FSG should be quite happy to fund another wedge of necessary transfer activity, and knowing that it's for the greater good.

I hope they are.

[RichC]

I think Arn's point is that you'll genuinely only really be a serious challenger for the league if you go bat**** with the spending - and i dont think he's wrong either. Ultimately, nobody who wins the PL nowadays, does it without having gone mad with spending money.

Regarding FSG, yes of course they want a return and i dont begrudge them that, but in the interim, even to just qualify for the CL, they need to spend a ****load. £40m net is leaving it touch and go and whilst there's no way of guaranteeing anything, you can all but guarantee success (to varying levels) the more you spend - eg, everyone agrees (and probably agreed a year or two ago) that City will, at some point, win the title - because they kept spending and spending and eventually, a bit like trial and error, you'll get there.

Coming back to us - i think we're on the cusp now of getting into the CL, we'll either do it or miss out by not much.

If we identified the right players, then i dont think it's radically beyond the pale for FSG to spend maybe another £40m-£50m net in January, because whilst they want a return and that's obviously fair enough, their returns will be infinitely bigger if they turn us back into a club that is in the CL year in, year out. In the interim, that is something that arguably still needs to have significant cash spent on it, before it'll happen.

What i'm unsure of, is whether FSG's splurge this summer just gone is basically it, or if they're willing (i know they are able) to fund another splurge should it be necessary.

I'm not saying spend bucketloads with no consideration for anything, i'm saying if it becomes apparent that it's needed (and IMO it still is), FSG should be quite happy to fund another wedge of necessary transfer activity, and knowing that it's for the greater good.

I hope they are.

I think there is a method to their madness.

I expect us to spend again and bring in one of these players we've all been wanting to see come in, financially it actually makes sense if it gets us back into the top 4 - the summer just gone we've improved the squad, added depth and got rid of a lot of ****e, now hopefully we'll see them adding a game changer in the Suarez mold but thats only a guess & hope from me.

And the thing is City's way of going about it was quite simply a scatter gun approach chuck enough cash about and at some point they'll get it right, they spent huge amounts of cash on some absolute ****e (Jo, Santa Cruz etc......) we're not going to be able to do that BUT I think (and hope) we can bring in carefully picked players to improve the squad.

I guess it all depends on FFP, what FSG think is value and whats sustainable as a club.

[little dave hedgehog]

if we can bring in 40m, then we will spend it. if we bring in 30m in revenue and 20m in player sales, we will spend 50, assuming the players we want will cost that much.

all they want is to sell for more than they bought, and even that is years down the line.

[Craig_H]

So if we dont sell, they wont buy?

[little dave hedgehog]

no i'm saying that we will spend both the club's normal operation revenue AND what we make in the transfer market. all that money will go back into the club rather than paying out any short term dividends to the owners.

[cream]

I guess we'll know better this coming window. We certainly need players, especially a top quality attacking player.

[Lecter]

In which case, if there are loopholes which will be so easy to exploit, why go ape at Arn on the basis that we 'cant' do what he suggested, when clearly, we apparently can?

For the record, i'm not having a go at Lec or anyone, on paper, it's clear we cant spend more than we generate - but the point is, does what's on paper equate to what will apply in reality?

If MCFC are allowed to flout the FFP rules, then it makes the whole point of FSG buying LFC nigh-on redundant.

I think the rules will tighten up as we get further into the reporting periods

Despite this loophole City will still struggle to meet the criteria

Their wages are greater than their turnover - £30-40 million higher in fact (I think its Deloitte who state in order to break even wages must be around 60-70% of turnover)

Thats an astronomic turnaround and even their dubious stadium naming rights/shirt deal will not make up such a shortfall

They will have to generate that difference from elsewhere and its hard to see how they could manage that

I dont think the other clubs will allow City to go on indefinitely flouting the rules, they will kick off and UEFA will have to act eventually

As for ourselves just because something is not against the rules doesnt mean we should do it

The club has been in a perilous financial state over the last few years and its good to see FSG putting us on a footing where the club could be self-sustaining in the long term, that has to be our goal

I dont see the logic in FSG ploughing money into the club, they will eventually want a return on that money

Our current debts our manageable the revenues are increasing nicely and the growth levels look to be ok going forward

Why tip the scales of that long term strategy for the sake of a here and now gamble that could be at great risk and detriment to that plan

This is the problem with many supporters they want everything "here and now" whether its off the pitch or on the pitch

FSG have owned the club for just over 12 months and Kenny has been here less than 12 months and yet people are already on their backs (and in some cases demanding that Kenny isnt good enough!!)

Shankly went 6 years without lifting a trophy (between 66 & 72) and Bob Paisley failed to win anything in his first season in charge

Imagine we had taken the "here and now" attitude with those two legends

[Lecter]

no i'm saying that we will spend both the club's normal operation revenue AND what we make in the transfer market. all that money will go back into the club rather than paying out any short term dividends to the owners.

Thats how I see it

Their goal is to grow the revenues to fund success on the pitch

I dont believe they will plough in vast sums of money (and I'm not convinced that is the correct business decision anyway) as if they did their investors would require a "dividend return" which could become a burden on the club at a later date

FSG are a lot shrewder than many people are giving them credit for and I think in the current economic climate anyone who is cautious and careful will likely be one of the survivors if and when the football bubble does eventually burst

[Craig_H]

I think the rules will tighten up as we get further into the reporting periods

Despite this loophole City will still struggle to meet the criteria

Their wages are greater than their turnover - £30-40 million higher in fact (I think its Deloitte who state in order to break even wages must be around 60-70% of turnover)

Thats an astronomic turnaround and even their dubious stadium naming rights/shirt deal will not make up such a shortfall

They will have to generate that difference from elsewhere and its hard to see how they could manage that

I dont think the other clubs will allow City to go on indefinitely flouting the rules, they will kick off and UEFA will have to act eventually

As for ourselves just because something is not against the rules doesnt mean we should do it

The club has been in a perilous financial state over the last few years and its good to see FSG putting us on a footing where the club could be self-sustaining in the long term, that has to be our goal

I dont see the logic in FSG ploughing money into the club, they will eventually want a return on that money

Our current debts our manageable the revenues are increasing nicely and the growth levels look to be ok going forward

Why tip the scales of that long term strategy for the sake of a here and now gamble that could be at great risk and detriment to that plan

This is the problem with many supporters they want everything "here and now" whether its off the pitch or on the pitch

FSG have owned the club for just over 12 months and Kenny has been here less than 12 months and yet people are already on their backs (and in some cases demanding that Kenny isnt good enough!!)

Shankly went 6 years without lifting a trophy (between 66 & 72) and Bob Paisley failed to win anything in his first season in charge

Imagine we had taken the "here and now" attitude with those two legends

I agree with all of that - yet City dont seem to be too worried - surely if THEY thought they'd struggle to adhere to the criteria and were in danger of being kicked out of Europe, they'd act differently? But they've just kept spending without giving a ****. Why are they so confident and not worried? That's what concerns me.

I also agree with you on wanting things 'here and now' but the problem is that we need to be back in the CL, like yesterday, if you take my meaning. The longer we miss out, the harder it'll get.

It's not about 'wanting' things here and now, it's about what the club actually needs.

[cream]

I agree with all of that - yet City dont seem to be too worried - surely if THEY thought they'd struggle to adhere to the criteria and were in danger of being kicked out of Europe, they'd act differently? But they've just kept spending without giving a ****. Why are they so confident and not worried? That's what concerns me.

I also agree with you on wanting things 'here and now' but the problem is that we need to be back in the CL, like yesterday, if you take my meaning. The longer we miss out, the harder it'll get.

It's not about 'wanting' things here and now, it's about what the club actually needs.

Everything they have done so far will not be not be included in FPP. They will now look at reducing their wage bill over the next few years, finding new sponsorship deals (if United can have sponsor for their training kits, why can't City) and they will also have CL revenue which they've never had before.

[fidget]

Everything they have done so far will not be not be included in FPP. They will now look at reducing their wage bill over the next few years, finding new sponsorship deals (if United can have sponsor for their training kits, why can't City) and they will also have CL revenue which they've never had before.

Well that's the tip of the iceberg paid for.