Champions League Games

[Exiled_red]

I don't agree. The referee first has to judge incidents according to the rules and only then impose whatever punishment is sanctioned by those rules. And then, for some offences, a certain punishment is mandatory while for other offences the punishment is more a matter of judgement.

So, just because kicking the ball away deliberately automatically incurs a yellow card, the referee first has to judge that's what the player did.

All the time we see decisions that on another day or with another referee might have been different. Does that mean they're wrong? Sometimes yes. And sometimes no.

It's about how the referee chooses to see an incident. For instance Rafael's booking on Sunday. Dowd could have chosen to see it as serious foul play or violent conduct, in which case, a red is mandatory. Or he could, as he did, see it as a reckless challenge, which carries a yellow. Either punishment would have been right, depending on how the ref chose to see the incident.

And that's why the quest for consistency across different matches and across different referees is doomed.

So last night the ref could have chosen to see it as not a foul. Given the marginal nature of it, that would have been a sensible decision.

I think it would also have been more sensible for him to recognise that choosing not to ignore the 'offence' would result in a red card. I think he should have taken that into account too.

In short, he had a get out and he failed to take advantage of it. It was a mistake.

But Arsenal would have lost anyway so who cares?

I think we are coming at this from a different view point you are looking at both the interpretation of the decision and the rule/punishment, I am just considering the rule and punishment. Once the referee decided that van Persie kicked the ball away deliberately he had no alternative but to book him under the rules (as I understand them). I am saying that he should have the opportunity (under the rules) to say that yes he kicked the ball away, but did it affect the game (prevent a quick restart or allow his players to get back in position)? no, so no booking perhaps just a warning.

Obviously he has to decide whether it was delibertate or not, and if he decides it wasn't no offence has ben committed, but if an offence has been committed the seriousness or implications should determine whether or not it warrants a yellow card, rather than the card being mandatory

[Fernandinho]

The fact that their juniors get to play in the segunda must be so good for their player development. Imagine if our reserves team played in the championship/league 1. That would create proper player development in English fooball. Showcasing our youngsters to sell off to lesser clubs/showing lowish PL teams they can make the step up for loan deals/getting ready for PL football with the first team.

[Shaggy]

The fact that their juniors get to play in the segunda must be so good for their player development. Imagine if our reserves team played in the championship/league 1. That would create proper player development in English fooball. Showcasing our youngsters to sell off to lesser clubs/showing lowish PL teams they can make the step up for loan deals/getting ready for PL football with the first team.

Rafa always campaigned for us to follow the Spanish model. In theory I agree, it would be ideal for us and the other top clubs. I just can't see how it could be implemented.

[Fernandinho]

How do they manage it in Spain? Surely if they can do it the FA could work it out?

[McDermotX]

This is one of the many reasons I don't like Barca. Great to watch but this kind of arrogant back-handed compliment is completely out of order:

“Wilshere is a top player. He has been a big surprise. I did not know him at the beginning of the season," he said. "He is an excellent player. We have many players like him in our second team.”

In fairness mate, that was completely twisted around by the media beforehand and taken entirely out of context, and of course, that agenda was furthered by Sky at every opportunity last night.
Pep was clearly stating that they had many players like that, at that stage of development, who aren't able to push on due to the pressures at Barca in maintaining a coherent unit in their battle with Real in La Liga. Wilshere is far more likely to feature in Arsenal's side, a side progressive with its youth policy, that featuring in an ultimate first XI at Barca.
I knew exactly what Pep meant by his statement, but in pure media spite, they chose to portray completely differently.

Even Football365 felt compelled to bring it up.

When Mediawatch saw Pep Guardiola's comments about Jack Wilshere, we sighed and knew, just knew, that the tabs would run around screaming and wettting their pants like little boys who'd had too much Capri Sun.

For the record, Pep said (in his second or third language, note): "Wilshere is a top player. He is an excellent player, not just Arsenal, but also for the national team. [But] he is lucky because we have many players in the second team like him but he plays because there is no pressure at his club to win titles."

This was said - as the papers well know - in the context of the pressure being so great at Barca to compete with Real Madrid that it's not as easy to blood players as young as Wilshere in their first team.

But, even after Pep praised Wilshere's qualities no less than four times even in that short passage, the coverage in the tabs ranges from the given, with The Daily Star opting for the headline 'JACK BOOT: WE'VE GOT BETTER PLAYERS IN OUR RESERVES', the expected, as The Daily Mail go with the headline 'SECOND RATE: GUARDIOLA TELLS WILSHERE HE'D ONLY MAKE THE BARCA RESERVES' to the hilarious, with The S*n's self-appointed European Football Correspondent Antony Kastrinakis claiming Pep offered a 'jibe' at Wilshere and 'taunted' the young man.

Sigh.

Shocking, but not unexpected

[Shaggy]

In fairness mate, that was completely twisted around by the media beforehand and taken entirely out of context, and of course, that agenda was furthered by Sky at every opportunity last night.
Pep was clearly stating that they had many players like that, at that stage of development, who aren't able to push on due to the pressures at Barca in maintaining a coherent unit in their battle with Real in La Liga. Wilshere is far more likely to feature in Arsenal's side, a side progressive with its youth policy, that featuring in an ultimate first XI at Barca.
I knew exactly what Pep meant by his statement, but in pure media spite, they chose to portray completely differently.

Even Football365 felt compelled to bring it up.



Shocking, but not unexpected

Meant to mention it had been completely skewed by the hysterical British press.

[Shaggy]

Whining Wenger has been charged by UEFA. As has Nasri apparently. Surprised if van Persie doesn't get done too.

[Rudo]

Whining Wenger has been charged by UEFA. As has Nasri apparently. Surprised if van Persie doesn't get done too.

How the **** did he get away with it?

[Reece]

What did Nasri do?

[Shaggy]

RobHarrisUK Rob Harris
To be clear, UEFA charged Wenger & Nasri about comments directly to referee post-match NOT media comments

[Rudo]

I see.

[Reece]

RobHarrisUK Rob Harris
To be clear, UEFA charged Wenger & Nasri about comments directly to referee post-match NOT media comments

Ta

[Shaggy]

Mascherano: "Sure, we win because of the referee. Strange nobody talks about disallowed Messi goal, penalty on Pedro, fouls by Koscielny. Wenger has the right to give his opinion and a loss is hard but he also knows it would have been unjust to qualify without one single shot."

[Chrono]

In fairness mate, that was completely twisted around by the media beforehand and taken entirely out of context, and of course, that agenda was furthered by Sky at every opportunity last night.
Pep was clearly stating that they had many players like that, at that stage of development, who aren't able to push on due to the pressures at Barca in maintaining a coherent unit in their battle with Real in La Liga. Wilshere is far more likely to feature in Arsenal's side, a side progressive with its youth policy, that featuring in an ultimate first XI at Barca.
I knew exactly what Pep meant by his statement, but in pure media spite, they chose to portray completely differently.

Even Football365 felt compelled to bring it up.


Shocking, but not unexpected

That's fair enough really and wasn't aware it was delivered in such a way but Arsenal are second in the league and fighting their own Real in the form of the mancs so it's not that different a scenario.

[McDermotX]

Seeing as how we all love stats these days...

Barcelona v Arsenal: The Statistics

* Depending on the method of calculation, Arsenal had somewhere between 24% (Opta) and 32% (UEFA) of possession in the Nou Camp.

* UEFA conclude that Barcelona had the ball for 49' 3" while Arsenal had control for 22' 41'' of the game.

* According to Sky Sports, Barcelona completed 724 passes versus Arsenal's 199.

* According to Opta's figures, Arsenal completed 71% of their passes while Barcelona's completion figure was 90%.

* Barcelona's midfield trio was Javier Mascherano (95 passes, 86% success), Xavi (133 passes, 90% success) and Andres Iniesta (105 passes, 92% success).

* Arsenal's midfield trio was Abou Diaby (24 passes, 88% success), Jack Wilshere (33 passes, 79% success) and Cesc Fabregas (30 passes, 70% success).

* No Arsenal player had a single shot - on, off target or blocked. Seven Barca players had attempts on goal - including both full-backs.

* Barcelona recorded 21 shots - 12 were on target, five off target and the remainder were blocked.

* In his 56 minutes on the pitch Robin van Persie had attempted eight passes.

* The Dutchman had not touched the ball in the opposition penalty area and Opta track his average position as well inside Arsenal's own half of the pitch.

* According to their figures, the only Arsenal player who logged an average position in the opposition half was substitute Andrey Arshavin.

* Arsenal committed 19 fouls to Barcelona's eight. Five of those fouls were attributed to Jack Wilshere.

* Laurent Koscielny has been yellow carded in each of his last three games for Arsenal. He has picked up nine yellows and two reds in total this season.

* Arsenal have scored more goals (21) than any other team in the Champions League this season. But ten teams have had more shots.

* Seven Barcelona players grace the top ten 'total passes' chart for the Champions League this season. Sergio Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta are the top three.

* Arsenal's first entrant on that list is Jack Wilshere down in 17th place - just below FC Copenhagen's William Kvist Jorgensen.

* Abou Diaby has conceded nine goals in his last three Champions League games - all against Barcelona.

* Manuel Almunia has conceded ten goals in the 271 minutes he has played against Barcelona in his career. That's a goal conceded every 27 minutes.