Sebastian Coates

[The_weatherman]

He wasn't bad...just lacked that something extra to be good enough for Liverpool....a bit like shelvey for me....decent, capable of good, but seemed to lack that extra yard or 100% focus for 90 mins every week.... Need to play every week but not good enough for Liverpool to play every week....will do well at mid to lower end of the table club.

You could be describing Kolo and Lovren there, but get your point, it's not something I feel strongly about but the fee is so low I'd consider the options, or include a bitch of a sell-on clause.

[Vermilion]

He wasn't bad...just lacked that something extra to be good enough for Liverpool....a bit like shelvey for me....decent, capable of good, but seemed to lack that extra yard or 100% focus for 90 mins every week.... Need to play every week but not good enough for Liverpool to play every week....will do well at mid to lower end of the table club.

The way you've phrased that is good, and right imo, but it's got me thinking about our other players which might come into the same catagory.

[The_weatherman]

In this case I think it is reasonable to wait till the start of the season at least to see how things pan out. Especially with the likes of Coates who has played, maybe, 25 games in the PL over 4 years.

Wait, wait, wait, I'm done with waiting, I want things done quick and fast, preferably without thought.

[PTP]

The way you've phrased that is good, and right imo, but it's got me thinking about our other players which might come into the same catagory.

Borini, lambert, Allen, for starters, Charlie Adam, downing in recent years.

All players who have looked good where expectations are lower.

I have this argument with Everton fans all the time. I think borini and Allen aren't good enough for us, other than reasonable squad cover.....but they both look the type that need to play every single week, and maybe they will have like in a run a of ten games, 5 good performances, 3 ok and 2 dire. for us, our expectations are we need 7 good performances and 3 ok.....have a dire one every now and then but not regularly.....I argue that imo if the likes of borini and Allen where at Everton, they'd ****ing love them and they'd be two of their key players.


It kinda sums up the weird sort of void we are in....stuck in a place where we can't quite compete with the big boys, but we expect much more than those below us.

A completely random comparison but it's like my golf when I was a junior, I had got down to say 8 handicap.....we had a junior section of about 40 lads......we had a group of about 6 or 7 lads who were like scratch handicap, then me and one or two others between 7 to 12 handicap......the rest where all ****ing dog ****.

On my day I could compete with the top tier but I'd have to be playing out of my skin....and I might manage it for one or two weeks....but then I'd have a week where I would drop of.....but I never wanted to play with the hackers cause I felt even when I dropped off I was still better than than their best

[dww]

He wasn't bad...just lacked that something extra to be good enough for Liverpool....a bit like shelvey for me....decent, capable of good, but seemed to lack that extra yard or 100% focus for 90 mins every week.... Need to play every week but not good enough for Liverpool to play every week....will do well at mid to lower end of the table club.

I think the Shelvey comparison is an interesting one. We bought them to bring on and neither overcame their deficiencies whilst with us. I kind of feel that part of the issue is that we have no program for developing players who aren't getting game plan (for an alternative see the way Chelsea loan out players). I think if Shelvey calms down a bit he'll develop into an excellent player (big if though).

A difference between the two is that Coates (and Alberto and Aspas for that matter) was presented as a full part of our recruitment. I think it is much better to have lower expectations as was done with Shelvey and has been with Gomez.

[Daffy Duck]

Ffs 2m... The way he played at the end of last season, we'd be better off loaning him out again, I'm positive his price would go up after a full season of regular games. Mistake selling him at that price imo.

[baitman]

i would sooner have kept him than have kept kolo on.
with some decent coaching he could/should have been better/improved.
we seem to get in decent lads then rinse any enthusiasm and hunger out of them.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, he was foreign, handsome and Luis's mate but he was crap, get over it.

[Exiled_red]

We'll never really know the details of deals like this (wages, agents fees, tax, etc). I don't see why people are so concerned with reported fees.

I don't see the point in keeping players who are at his career stage unless the manager has faith in them. It is clear that Rodgers doesn't fancy Coates. I like Coates (and wish him well) but it doesn't feel like we are accidentally selling the new Baresi. I'd prefer to see us appointing coaching staff before trying to trade for a new defence but equally getting deals done early may give us more freedom in the market and longer to blend a team.

I know that is true, we don't know the details, but we brought him in as a promising youngster for about £5m had him around the club for a couple of years loaned him out a couple of times, it has got to the point where he is starting to look decent albeit not good enough for us, and we are selling him for ~£2m.

To me it is an example of one of the problems at the club. Players like this we should at least be looking to make our money back on from another PL club given we didn't pay that much in the grand scheme of things, £2m is nothing these days for a PL player. We are spending 3 or 4 times that on a young player who we hope to develop but won't see first team action for a few years. Having developed someone to a level were other PL clubs want them we should be able to get a decent fee for them

[Kenneth]

He's got a year left on his contract and he's not very good. Don't see why £2m is surprising to be honest.

[dww]

I know that is true, we don't know the details, but we brought him in as a promising youngster for about £5m had him around the club for a couple of years loaned him out a couple of times, it has got to the point where he is starting to look decent albeit not good enough for us, and we are selling him for ~£2m.

To me it is an example of one of the problems at the club. Players like this we should at least be looking to make our money back on from another PL club given we didn't pay that much in the grand scheme of things, £2m is nothing these days for a PL player. We are spending 3 or 4 times that on a young player who we hope to develop but won't see first team action for a few years. Having developed someone to a level were other PL clubs want them we should be able to get a decent fee for them

Part of my point is that we have no idea about the 'real' value of any deal. All we have is one newspaper report. No details of transfers are made public so we only get information from someone with an interest in spinning a deal one way or another (and or just making up numbers from the outside).

The less specific point about failing to develop players is a fair one. Although realistically the point the work needed to be put in was a while back and the fact that Coates has had a serious injury and even when fit played very little has not enhanced his value. I don't think we have done anything to benefit Coates career in terms of footballing development and hence the idea that we should be breaking even or making money on the doesn't really hold up for me.

[Exiled_red]

Part of my point is that we have no idea about the 'real' value of any deal. All we have is one newspaper report. No details of transfers are made public so we only get information from someone with an interest in spinning a deal one way or another (and or just making up numbers from the outside).

The less specific point about failing to develop players is a fair one. Although realistically the point the work needed to be put in was a while back and the fact that Coates has had a serious injury and even when fit played very little has not enhanced his value. I don't think we have done anything to benefit Coates career in terms of footballing development and hence the idea that we should be breaking even or making money on the doesn't really hold up for me.

I understand what you are sayiing in terms of fees etc we may never know the exact fee but I would imagine that the £2m quoted is in the right ball park, I doubt it will be less than a million or more than £5m.

While I agree we have hardly developed his career, he is now wanted by another PL club so his level is at some reasonable standard, I think you would struggle to get CB in the PL for £2m even if you wanted them just as a backup. Given that we paid £5m for him 3 or 4 years ago and the market has been inflated by TV money etc, he is 24 years old and wanted by another PL club I think we should be able to break even on him. These types of deals rarely work out (bring in a highly rated youngster and hope to turn him into a world class player), if they do fantastic, if they don't and you are able to develop them into a PL standard player we should at least make our money back, surely this is the way that these things should be working. While I agree that the club haven't developed Coates much, he is now valued at half of what we paid for him, (and less in real terms when you consider inflation). I don't think he is a worse player than when we signed him (and we didn't pay a massive fee) so I don't see why we shouldn't be able to break even.

[Bender]

Liverpool FC can confirm that defender Sebastian Coates has today completed a permanent transfer to Sunderland.
link
....£4M being mentioned

[wavydavy]

Five to go then? Ballotelli,Borini,Lambert,Enrique & Alberto? Plus Sterling of course. We could be looking at raising around,what,80 mill?

[MrMichael]

Have we any real reason to believe the £2m figure over the much more widely reported one of double that?

Five to go then? Ballotelli,Borini,Lambert,Enrique & Alberto? Plus Sterling of course. We could be looking at raising around,what,80 mill?

Hmmm, not sure. Are you allowing £50m for Sterling? I don't think we'll get £30m for the others, more likely a top of £15m and we'll have to loan Balotelli out.