Lionel Messi

[Shaggy]

World Cup IMO is a **** barometer - it's only 3 weeks, it's a one off, and crap players can shine there, as we know only too well. Not saying Maradona's ****, obviously he was incredible, but the bigger picture is surely a better barometer, and Messi's achievements over a period of years, but moreover his actual performances and goals, eclipse Maradona IMO.

[Trippendicular]

Plus Messi has another 5+ years at the top of his game, fitness permitting.

[Nick77]

World Cup IMO is a **** barometer - it's only 3 weeks, it's a one off, and crap players can shine there, as we know only too well. Not saying Maradona's ****, obviously he was incredible, but the bigger picture is surely a better barometer, and Messi's achievements over a period of years, but moreover his actual performances and goals, eclipse Maradona IMO.

Exactly & gone are the days when 1 player could win a World Cup like Maradona did in 86 as the sport has become professional to the extent that any team can beat anyone (look at Celtic). In the 80's, especially in internationals scorelines of 11-0, 12-0 were quite the norm whereas these days those scorelines almost never happen anymore...

[Tee]

Maradona

MIND THE GAP!

Zidane
Messi
Pele

[The_weatherman]

Maradona

MIND THE GAP!

Zidane
Messi
Pele

Honours

Barcelona 273 goals in 346 games

• La Liga: 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11
• Copa del Rey: 2008–09, 2011–12; Runner-up 2010–11
• Supercopa de España: 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011; Runner-up 2012
• UEFA Champions League: 2005–06, 2008–09, 2010–11
• UEFA Super Cup: 2009, 2011; Runner-up 2006
• FIFA Club World Cup: 2009, 2011

Argentina 31 goals in 75 games

• Olympic Gold Medal: 2008
• FIFA U-20 World Cup: 2005

Runner Up:

• Copa America: 2007

Third Place:

• U20 South American Youth Championship: 2005

Individual

• FIFA Ballon d'Or (2): 2010, 2011
• Ballon d'Or (1): 2009
• FIFA World Player of the Year (1): 2009
• World Soccer Player of the Year (2): 2009, 2011
• World Soccer Young Player of the Year (3): 2006, 2007, 2008
• ESM Team of the Year (5): 2005–06, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11, 2011-12
• European Golden Shoe (2): 2010, 2012
• Pichichi Trophy (2): 2010, 2012
• La Liga Player of the Year (3): 2009, 2010, 2011
• LFP Best Player (4): 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
• LFP Best Forward (4): 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
• La Liga Foreign Player of the Year (3): 2007, 2009, 2010
• La Liga Ibero-American Player of the Year (5): 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
• UEFA Champions League Top Goalscorer (4): 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
• UEFA Best Player in Europe Award (1): 2011
• UEFA Club Footballer of the Year (1): 2009
• UEFA Champions League Forward of the Year (1): 2009
• UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match (1): 2011
• UEFA Team of the Year (4): 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
• Onze d'Or (3): 2009, 2011, 2012. (There was no winner in 2010)
• Bravo Award (1): 2007
• Tuttosport Golden Boy (1): 2005
• FIFA Club World Cup Golden Ball (2): 2009, 2011
• FIFA U-20 World Cup Player of the Tournament (1): 2005
• FIFA U-20 World Cup top goalscorer (1): 2005
• Copa América Young Player of the Tournament (1): 2007
• FIFPro World Young Player of the Year (3): 2006, 2007, 2008
• FIFA/FIFPro World XI (5): 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
• Sportsperson of the Year of Argentina (1): 2011
• Footballer of the Year of Argentina (6): 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
• Male Best Athlete in Latin America (1): 2011
• Marca Leyenda (1): 2009
• L'Équipe Champion of Champions (1): 2011
• IFFHS World's Top Goal Scorer (1): 2011[252]
• Best International Athlete ESPY Award (1): 2012

Records

• Most goals scored in a season in all competitions: 73 goals
• Most goals scored in a European Cup season: 14 goals (held jointly with José Altafini)
• Most La Liga hat-tricks in one season: 8 hat-tricks
• Most European Cup top scorer awards: 4 awards (shared with Gerd Müller)
• Most consecutive La Liga matches scored in: 10 matches (shared with Ronaldo and Mariano Martín)
• Most goals scored in FIFA Club World Cup: 4 goals (held jointly with Denilson)
• Barcelona top goalscorer in official competitions: 270 goals
• Barcelona Record Goalscorer in UEFA Champions League: 53 goals
• Barcelona Record Goalscorer in European Competitions: 54 goals
• Barcelona Record Goalscorer in international Competitions: 58 goals

He is 25...........25 years old!!!! Lets say he scores only 30 goals a season for the next five seasons, he'll end up with about 430 goals by the time he's 30.

[Tee]

He is amazing, no doubts at all. But for me there is so much more to a footballer than just putting the ball away (and being part of the greatest TEAM of all time).

For me it is about the touch, technique, skill, vision, presence, style of play and also the actual character of the player, amongst many factors.

And in my lifetime I have never seen a phenomenon like Diego Maradona. He was quite simply the greatest football player I have ever seen, no matter what he has won. He was actually more than just a player, he carried the weight of a nation and he produced for his nation when it mattered, at two (arguably 3) world cups!

Zidane pushes him close for me because of what he could do on the pitch, his touch and vision plus the ability to do what he did against Leverkeusen on teh biggest stage of all, plus the way he performed for France.

Messi is a great, one of the greatest, but IMO he is not quite up ther ewith Maradona or Zizou.

[Shaggy]

For me it is about the touch, technique, skill, vision, presence, style of play and also the actual character of the player, amongst many factors.

And IMO Messi has all of that in abundance, more so than Maradona.

[Tee]

And IMO Messi has all of that in abundance, more so than Maradona.

I knew someone would say that, and its great we all have differing opinions.

I think Diego also had the fire inside him, that something special that no other player has had IMO. He connected with people in a way I think Messi never will.

[Daniel 7]

Maradona was butchered on the pitch, Messi has never had to deal with that. Anyway, he did this on the first time he came up against the player who nearly ended his playing career. Couldn't imagine Messi going off it like this

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEeMSBy8EW0&feature=fvwrel"]Diego Maradona Fight (Best quality) - YouTube[/ame]

[Shaggy]

We all have differing opinions, and some of them are wrong

As pointed out it's impossible comparing across generations but it makes for good debate

[Shaggy]

Maradona was butchered on the pitch, Messi has never had to deal with that.

He so does! Spanish football is brutal, despite all the crap about the Prem, it's far harder IMO, people get kicked all over the place usually by hatchet men South American centre backs. Messi gets booted all over the shop, and he just gets up and gets on with it.

[Phoenix07]

He so does! Spanish football is brutal, despite all the crap about the Prem, it's far harder IMO, people get kicked all over the place usually by hatchet men South American centre backs. Messi gets booted all over the shop, and he just gets up and gets on with it.

It's a footballing myth that Spanish football isn't as tough as Premier League football. The fouls in Spanish football are really funny. Some of them are so blatant.

[Shaggy]

It's rough as ****, and also when a fight kicks off they are often proper brawls, none of this pretend handbags **** we see over here. Spanish foul play is on another level altogether.

[Tee]

He so does! Spanish football is brutal, despite all the crap about the Prem, it's far harder IMO, people get kicked all over the place usually by hatchet men South American centre backs. Messi gets booted all over the shop, and he just gets up and gets on with it.

A bit of a myth now tbh. So much at stake for teams and referees are far more card happy now that the Spanish league is nowhere near as physical as it was in the days of the Greatest player of all time, Diego Armando Maradona.

He was that good I still remember his middle name. Whats Lionel's btw?

[Daniel 7]

He so does! Spanish football is brutal, despite all the crap about the Prem, it's far harder IMO, people get kicked all over the place usually by hatchet men South American centre backs. Messi gets booted all over the shop, and he just gets up and gets on with it.

Not saying he doesn't have to put up with a kicking now and again, but its nowhere near the same level. Maradona was putting up with GBH from teams like Brazil and across the Spanish league.

There just aren't tackles like the one below going in on players nowadays - we're almost non contact compared to the viciousness there was back then.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaEbB78GLyA"]Maradona's leg broken by Goikoetxea in 1983. - YouTube[/ame]

Also, re your earlier post about the World cup - when Maradona did it, it genuinely was the best competition in World football, a true elite competition. Now, the standards are diluted by the Champions League putting together stronger and more effective teams every week.

I'm undecided though. The professionalism, speed and athleticism are on a different level now, so Maradona with his questionable dedication to fitness would mean he would never look as good if he was to play nowadays. So you have to say Messi...

But you might as well be arguing between Pele and Maradona or Ali and Tyson.