Spain vs Portugal match thread

[Kenneth]

I've changed my opinion on this. I think the best way to put it is this: Spain are not boring, but games involving Spain frequently are. Opposition teams are constantly set up to disrupt them and in the end they keep getting past them. When opposition open up or get tired Spain are thrilling to watch.

The weird perspective of the comments from the English press is quite depressing, but the worry of it is that some recent ex-players like Keown are part of it. It appears that a lot of people in/around the game still haven't managed to look beyond the PL (and perhaps lower leagues) for ways to think about the game.

You only have to look at Germany to see a team playing more in the 'pl way' than not and doing it very successfully. Of course there is more than one way of playing the game, but I don't see why that means that people should automatically think the Spain way is fantastic.

[Reece]

If only there were a pat on the head smiley.

[dww]

I was being serious. It's a very simple way to put it but then the sharpest insights often are.

Yay!

It was the clapping smiley that made me dubious.

[Neil Young]

I originally put but I thought I'm not comfortable with that level of deference, even to you, oh Wise One.

[Daniel 7]

Stunning insight from Keown last night

"They need to take off either Alonso or Busquets - they're doing the same thing"

How to completely miss the point. What an idiot. I remember numpties like him saying similair about Alonso and Masch being partnered by Benitez. Keown must think that if good old George Graham didn't have it, then it must be wrong. He is an ape.

I hate Ingerlish punditry, its so lowest common denominator.

[Alex]

Keown also said that he cant believe that Spain are persisting without a striker.


Yeah, your dead right there, Martin. Negredo starting only strengthens your point. Moron.

[Shaggy]

The most boring thing about the Euros is people saying Spain are boring.

Boring penalty shoot out, boring penalty from Fabregas. Boring.

[dww]

Stunning insight from Keown last night

"They need to take off either Alonso or Busquets - they're doing the same thing"

How to completely miss the point. What an idiot. I remember numpties like him saying similair about Alonso and Masch being partnered by Benitez. Keown must think that if good old George Graham didn't have it, then it must be wrong. He is an ape.

I hate Ingerlish punditry, its so lowest common denominator.

Compared with the striker thing I think that is a criticism that could have weight - Spain have previously, for example at the last Euros, used a lone player in a similar role. In general the criticism doesn't hold as the whole point of the system is control of possession - effectively everyone in the midfield is doing the same job. The question in the Portugal match though was surely; do you replace Xavi or one of Alonso or Busquets to bring on Pedro in attack late in the game? Removing on of the latter pair certainly seems a valid answer.

[Daniel 7]

Keown also said that he cant believe that Spain are persisting without a striker.


Yeah, your dead right there, Martin. Negredo starting only strengthens your point. Moron.

Look what happened when they got rid of the immobile, isolated passenger. They were attacking in waves.

I don;t get why there were so many saying it was a terrible game. It wasn't. Fair enough the second half wasn't the most interesting, but I think it was a long way from the way Lineker reacted after 90 minutes - he's an embarrassment.

[Neil Young]

Compared with the striker thing I think that is a criticism that could have weight - Spain have previously, for example at the last Euros, used a lone player in a similar role. In general the criticism doesn't hold as the whole point of the system is control of possession - effectively everyone in the midfield is doing the same job. The question in the Portugal match though was surely; do you replace Xavi or one of Alonso or Busquets to bring on Pedro in attack late in the game? Removing on of the latter pair certainly seems a valid answer.

It was an option but I thought Xavi was the poorest of the three in last night's game. Also Busquets and Alonso were playing a little deeper, and were doing a good job of stifling Portugal's attack. Plus Xavi's the oldest and often doesn't finish games for Barcelona so taking him off seemed by far the most sensible decision, even before Del Bosque did it.

As usual, Keown suggested it was a good decision once it had been made. That's what expert pundits are for it seems - telling us what just happened. Lawrenson does it all the time.

[Shaggy]

Their problem IMO is a lack of pace. Alba has pace but other than that they're struggling. The introduction of Navas and Pedro make a real difference but you can't really make a case for them starting, unless you move Iniesta from the 'left forward' position into the central 3. Iniesta really started to run the show last night once he went more central.

[Daniel 7]

Compared with the striker thing I think that is a criticism that could have weight - Spain have previously, for example at the last Euros, used a lone player in a similar role. In general the criticism doesn't hold as the whole point of the system is control of possession - effectively everyone in the midfield is doing the same job. The question in the Portugal match though was surely; do you replace Xavi or one of Alonso or Busquets to bring on Pedro in attack late in the game? Removing on of the latter pair certainly seems a valid answer.

Most of the criticism is fear of the unknown though - its so uncultured. The reaction is "Funny foreigners getting it wrong" when they're actually being innovative in accommodating their best players in a system that works for them.

They haven't looked better putting up with a striker who doesn't have the ability of their attacking midfielders. This formation could be revolutionary. Its being dismissed because its challenging the traditional notions of whats proper, according to traditionalists who like their strikers sticking the ball in the net.

It might not be the finished version yet, but its getting results. They're in another final.

As for the midfield conundrum, we all know what Alonso provides. It was more the dismissive attitude of "two defensive midfielders" - which they clearly aren't - that irked me.

[dww]

It was an option but I thought Xavi was the poorest of the three in last night's game. Also Busquets and Alonso were playing a little deeper, and were doing a good job of stifling Portugal's attack. Plus Xavi's the oldest and often doesn't finish games for Barcelona so taking him off seemed by far the most sensible decision, even before Del Bosque did it.

As usual, Keown suggested it was a good decision once it had been made. That's what expert pundits are for it seems - telling us what just happened. Lawrenson does it all the time.

I tend to agree. Fitness being the real clincher.

I was really thinking of bringing Xavi deeper into the position, if not role of one of the DMs. Hoping a change of role might help Xavi find time on the ball. It would have been a more naturally attacking change - in some way the equivalent of an English team throwing on another striker - potentially impacting the game psychologically as much as tactically.

In the end the change made by Del Bosque looked an excellent one in extra time. He seems more of an extremist tactically than say Guardiola or Aragones but it seems to be working for Spain.

[Alex]

Spain's only problem is that Messi is Argentinian.

[Daniel 7]

I tend to agree. Fitness being the real clincher.

I was really thinking of bringing Xavi deeper into the position, if not role of one of the DMs. Hoping a change of role might help Xavi find time on the ball. It would have been a more naturally attacking change - in some way the equivalent of an English team throwing on another striker - potentially impacting the game psychologically as much as tactically.

In the end the change made by Del Bosque looked an excellent one in extra time. He seems more of an extremist tactically than say Guardiola or Aragones but it seems to be working for Spain.

Strange isn't it?

When he was The Galactico manager he was disparaged as just being the man who kept them happy by putting them where they want to play.