Joe Allen [Sold]

[Phoenix07]

The role he played at Swansea was very different to what he's been playing here. He was someone who could hold his position in central midfield, but also bomb forward with athleticism when the opportunity arose. He hasn't done that here for whatever reason.

Personally, I think he'll be a different player next season in a positive way.

[Tee]

Hey Wiw.

I can understand your argument, of course I can. But I just have not seen anything at all in Joe Allen's game to suggest he will ever develop into the world class midfielder that we need (if we have any plans to win the title).

Infact, if I was an oposition player he is exactly the kind of player I would love to play against in CM because I know I would dominate him totally.

TBH mate, I would use your argument for someone like Jonjo. He has shown the raw talent IMO to go and develop into a really good CM for us.

[Red_Polo]

Wasn't comparing the talents of both players though was he. Just the similarity of the situation.

Not suggesting he was. Just that it doesn't further the argument as their situations were not similar - they were regular first choice players and playing to a very high level by 23. As I said that doesn't count against Allen though as they were exceptional talents.

[Roboklopp]

What's with all these shoulder injuries FFS? Shoulder training is my favourite, the club can employ me to add some real meat & strength to the players' shoulders if they like. Should stop the injuries.

[Arn]

£15m + £40k a week is £23m over his contract. He has a resale value due to his age, the exact amount being debatable of course. Not that i think we'll sell him but hey.

That's the same as a £100k a week player on a free transfer for 4 years, including say a £2m signing on fee.

Now we've easily pissed that away on Cole and Jovanovic. Possibly extreme examples but they're examples where we've pissed millions away on aging players.

Regardless of anybody's opinion of him (for the record I rate him) I think he deserves a bit of patience, especially in light of his injury. If Rodgers felt the need to dish out money for him then that's fine with me. His brief history of signings are promising IMO.

Anyone know where Xavi was at the age of 23? Correct me if I'm wrong but he was struggling to get in the team ahead of an old crowd favourite called Pep Guardiola. Steven Gerrard anyone? Now he may not end up half the player Xavi is but he's still young regardless of the transfer fee and time can change things massively for some players. Just look at Lucas.

Joe Allen yay

Allen is a one position only player. Either you play him as the playmaker or you don't play him at all. Gerrard play as our playmaker and that means that Allen shouldn't play at all if Gerrard play in midfield.

Rodgers signed him and played him out of position the whole season. All very confusing. Why sign him when you don't have any plans to play him in the only position he should play?

I believe that Rodgers signed him to act as a backup to Gerrard if he couldn't get over his massive injury problems. With Gerrard being able to play in almost every game then Rodgers had a problem to solve. How to get any playing time for Allen. Playing him out of position or playing Gerrard behind the striker was the only possible answers to the problem. He clearly decided not to move Gerrard so the only way left to give Allen playing time was to play him out of position.

[Red_Polo]

Alright Tee?

The comparisons weren't meant to further my argument exactly Gerrard is obviously a special case. Xavi however was close to being loaned before breaking into the team. He was also played in the pivote role until being moved forward and unleashed a bit later in his career. Plus at 23 i'm not sure anyone quite expected him to reach the heights he did. Anyway, enough about Xavi.


Joe Allen yay

Oops hadn't seen this yet, sorry

He took Guardiola's place in our treble season though, he was 20/21, and he was quality for them even before he moved forward. Obviously I agree that young players develop and improve, and sometimes dramatically so. Also agree with what you said about Allen and the offen unfair criticism of how much he cost us. I only mentioned the Xavi and Gerrard thing because with someone else having picked at it I thought it was important to say that even if Allen's situation is not comparable to someone like Xavi at the same stage, it's not something that could be reasonably held against him.

[Red_Polo]

Allen is a one position only player. Either you play him as the playmaker or you don't play him at all. Gerrard play as our playmaker and that means that Allen shouldn't play at all if Gerrard play in midfield.

Rodgers signed him and played him out of position the whole season. All very confusing. Why sign him when you don't have any plans to play him in the only position he should play?

I believe that Rodgers signed him to act as a backup to Gerrard if he couldn't get over his massive injury problems. With Gerrard being able to play in almost every game then Rodgers had a problem to solve. How to get any playing time for Allen. Playing him out of position or playing Gerrard behind the striker was the only possible answers to the problem. He clearly decided not to move Gerrard so the only way left to give Allen playing time was to play him out of position.

Don't buy into your reading of Rodgers intentions there. I think the plan was Lucas, Allen, Gerrard in advancing order of position.

He certainly didn't buy him for Lucas' role as far as I can see, he commented to the effect of seeing more from him when we can play him further forward. Is it not possible he just sees him as the most viable alternative to Lucas?

[Roboklopp]

Aye Polo, can't see him spunking £15m on a ressie.

[Lecter]

Allen is a one position only player. Either you play him as the playmaker or you don't play him at all. Gerrard play as our playmaker and that means that Allen shouldn't play at all if Gerrard play in midfield.

Rodgers signed him and played him out of position the whole season. All very confusing. Why sign him when you don't have any plans to play him in the only position he should play?

I believe that Rodgers signed him to act as a backup to Gerrard if he couldn't get over his massive injury problems. With Gerrard being able to play in almost every game then Rodgers had a problem to solve. How to get any playing time for Allen. Playing him out of position or playing Gerrard behind the striker was the only possible answers to the problem. He clearly decided not to move Gerrard so the only way left to give Allen playing time was to play him out of position.

I'm not sure where his best position is

He cant tackle and his little or no physical presence so the holding role is out

He doesnt effect the game higher up the pitch to be an attacking midfielder

That as you said leaves the playmaker role but frankly I think you have to have more strings to your bow than he has to play that position

[Lecter]

Don't buy into your reading of Rodgers intentions there. I think the plan was Lucas, Allen, Gerrard in advancing order of position.

He certainly didn't buy him for Lucas' role as far as I can see, he commented to the effect of seeing more from him when we can play him further forward. Is it not possible he just sees him as the most viable alternative to Lucas?

I'd agree with most of that

For me its hasnt worked, that doesnt mean it might not but certainly so far I havent seen anything to suggest to me that it will

Maybe I'll be wrong, I hope so otherwise thats another big fee we've pissed against the wall

[Tee]

I'm not sure where his best position is

He cant tackle and his little or no physical presence so the holding role is out

He doesnt effect the game higher up the pitch to be an attacking midfielder

That as you said leaves the playmaker role but frankly I think you have to have more strings to your bow than he has to play that position

[Paddy]

Charlie Adam Mk2

[Arn]

I'm not sure where his best position is

He cant tackle and his little or no physical presence so the holding role is out

He doesnt effect the game higher up the pitch to be an attacking midfielder

That as you said leaves the playmaker role but frankly I think you have to have more strings to your bow than he has to play that position

We don't really need him and should never been signed. I still wonder why we signed him when we already had a playmaker in Gerrard.

Rodgers of course know that the only position Allen can deliver in is the playmaker position. He built up the midfield at Swansea around Allen, other players did the dirty work, like Britton.

So why did he sign him?

[dww]

I think playmaker is a bit of a catch all term. Gerrard and Allen aren't really very similar players are they? Even if we were to accept that we do have to plan for Gerrard's absences and eventual retirement.

I think anyone who can't see why we signed a player who was the heartbeat of the managers last side, when that manager is trying to change our style of play is being deliberately provocative. You might think it was a bad signing but I think the logic behind it is clear.

[Sarb]

I think playmaker is a bit of a catch all term. Gerrard and Allen aren't really very similar players are they? Even if we were to accept that we do have to plan for Gerrard's absence sand eventual retirement.

I think anyone who can't see why we signed a player who was the heartbeat of the managers last side, when that manager is trying to change our style of play is being deliberately provocative. You might think it was a bad signing but I think the logic behind it is clear.

This is exactly right. I said when Rodgers took over that I could see him making a move for Joe Allen first. Under Rodgers he was vital in that Swansea side and for the way they played. Yeah maybe we overpaid for him but, we paid what we paid for someone who Rodgers thinks is vital for the way he wants his teams to play. It was an entirely logical move by Rodgers.

Personally think he's going through a confidence crisis. I saw enough in the first couple of months of the season to indicate he has the talent. Hopefully it's a benefit that he's been taken out of the firing line now. The stick he gets off some fans is pretty poor really