Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Thomas Hitzlsperger

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Football toxic for gay people - Amaechi
    8 January 2014 Updated 20:31
    Former Aston Villa midfielder Thomas Hitzlsperger is the highest-profile footballer to reveal publicly he is gay - but retired basketball star John Amaechi doubts others will follow.
    Amaechi, the first NBA player to come out, believes football's "toxic" culture is to blame, and must change. He tells BBC Sport why.
    Coming out is better than being in the closet. Being authentic is better than being inauthentic. So I think it's good for Thomas Hitzlsperger to have come out. I'm sure his life will be considerably better as time moves forward.
    It isn't a big deal for an awful lot of people, but within sport there is still a problem. The real problem, especially with football, is that it has never evaluated itself properly. The sport has never understood just how toxic it is.
    Football is toxic and not just for gay people - it's toxic for Asians who want to play the game, it's toxic for women who want to be executives, it's toxic for black people who want to do anything but play. It's toxic in many different ways, but football doesn't see itself like that.
    It sees itself as this amazing, wonderful, bold and progressive organisation. As an analogy, it is the fat bloke who looks at himself in the mirror and beaming back at him is an Adonis. It's a self-image that bears no resemblance on reality.
    Footballers coming out at the highest level will happen only as the product of a cultural change within the game. It will not be the precursor to cultural change in football. If you want to see people being who they are, coming out and playing at their very best because they're able to be who they are, then the culture of football must change first.
    That can be done if a remarkably small number of people who hold a remarkable amount of power can evolve.
    Most companies have made the transition already. They understand that issues of inclusion are not about being nice, window dressing, PR and phrases such as Kick It Out.
    Football is the Saatchi & Saatchi of sports organisations. It's really good at advertising campaigns and colourful posters. That's part of change, but the fundamentals are a bit more rigorous, functional, pragmatic and boring. Football is not doing those bits.
    I've worked with multinational organisations that have made fundamental policy changes thorough education at every level, with senior executives who mean the change they're talking about. It's amazing that within two or three years, the organisation starts to shift radically. It attracts the very best people regardless of demographic.
    Football's decision to stay in the dark ages - in terms of women in boardrooms, black people in management or executive positions and gay people anywhere - is just a statement that they don't want the very best people.
    They don't want to change the status quo because they know that means new people, more women executives, more Asian players and executives, more difference. Football and sport are toxic to difference.
    Football thinks bigotry exists in little compartments; that the causes are all separate monsters they have to fight one at a time. They've opted to fight the racism monster first and then they'll move on to the next one.
    But bigotry is a Hydra. It has many heads. You can go swiping at those heads as much as you want - they will just multiply. You have to kill the ignorance and myths at the centre of that monster in order to destroy it.
    Generally, it just need 10-15% of an organisation to lead well and the rest will follow. Fans will follow if properly led.
    Coming out is challenging for anybody. Coming out to yourself is a challenge for many. Coming out to families and people who love you is very difficult. When you add on top of that the challenge of coming out to complete strangers - who are then going to go on Twitter and call you the 'F' word - you suddenly realise that even in 2014, it is still a challenging thing.
    I give the same advice to all people who are considering coming out. You should come out if it's safe. If you can come out and you know that your team-mates are going to be supportive, if you know your club will be supportive, that your management will be supportive and your family will be supportive, then do it.
    Being out is better than being in. Being yourself makes everything a bit more rosy.
    John Amaechi was talking to BBC Sport's David Ornstein
    Modifying post.

    Comment


      #32
      Would have been too much trouble to add some spaces between paragraphs?
      Was muß, das muß.

      Comment


        #33
        Football toxic for gay people - Amaechi
        8 January 2014 Updated 20:31

        Former Aston Villa midfielder Thomas Hitzlsperger is the highest-profile footballer to reveal publicly he is gay - but retired basketball star John Amaechi doubts others will follow.

        Amaechi, the first NBA player to come out, believes football's "toxic" culture is to blame, and must change. He tells BBC Sport why.

        Coming out is better than being in the closet. Being authentic is better than being inauthentic. So I think it's good for Thomas Hitzlsperger to have come out. I'm sure his life will be considerably better as time moves forward.

        It isn't a big deal for an awful lot of people, but within sport there is still a problem. The real problem, especially with football, is that it has never evaluated itself properly. The sport has never understood just how toxic it is.

        Football is toxic and not just for gay people - it's toxic for Asians who want to play the game, it's toxic for women who want to be executives, it's toxic for black people who want to do anything but play. It's toxic in many different ways, but football doesn't see itself like that.

        It sees itself as this amazing, wonderful, bold and progressive organisation. As an analogy, it is the fat bloke who looks at himself in the mirror and beaming back at him is an Adonis. It's a self-image that bears no resemblance on reality.

        Footballers coming out at the highest level will happen only as the product of a cultural change within the game. It will not be the precursor to cultural change in football. If you want to see people being who they are, coming out and playing at their very best because they're able to be who they are, then the culture of football must change first.
        That can be done if a remarkably small number of people who hold a remarkable amount of power can evolve.

        Most companies have made the transition already. They understand that issues of inclusion are not about being nice, window dressing, PR and phrases such as Kick It Out.
        Football is the Saatchi & Saatchi of sports organisations. It's really good at advertising campaigns and colourful posters. That's part of change, but the fundamentals are a bit more rigorous, functional, pragmatic and boring. Football is not doing those bits.

        I've worked with multinational organisations that have made fundamental policy changes thorough education at every level, with senior executives who mean the change they're talking about. It's amazing that within two or three years, the organisation starts to shift radically. It attracts the very best people regardless of demographic.

        Football's decision to stay in the dark ages - in terms of women in boardrooms, black people in management or executive positions and gay people anywhere - is just a statement that they don't want the very best people.

        They don't want to change the status quo because they know that means new people, more women executives, more Asian players and executives, more difference. Football and sport are toxic to difference.

        Football thinks bigotry exists in little compartments; that the causes are all separate monsters they have to fight one at a time. They've opted to fight the racism monster first and then they'll move on to the next one.

        But bigotry is a Hydra. It has many heads. You can go swiping at those heads as much as you want - they will just multiply. You have to kill the ignorance and myths at the centre of that monster in order to destroy it.

        Generally, it just need 10-15% of an organisation to lead well and the rest will follow. Fans will follow if properly led.

        Coming out is challenging for anybody. Coming out to yourself is a challenge for many. Coming out to families and people who love you is very difficult. When you add on top of that the challenge of coming out to complete strangers - who are then going to go on Twitter and call you the 'F' word - you suddenly realise that even in 2014, it is still a challenging thing.

        I give the same advice to all people who are considering coming out. You should come out if it's safe. If you can come out and you know that your team-mates are going to be supportive, if you know your club will be supportive, that your management will be supportive and your family will be supportive, then do it.

        Being out is better than being in. Being yourself makes everything a bit more rosy.

        John Amaechi was talking to BBC Sport's David Ornstein
        Was muß, das muß.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by dom9 View Post
          If this continues, a high-profile player who has not retired might do it.

          I can't believe that in 2014 this is a discussion topic. I can't get my head around that.
          I agree, though I am surprised you don't see this as a discussion topic? Surely Hitzelsperger coming out is not a statement to people such as yourself or others who have no issues with homosexuality. It is an acknowledgement that football experiences something of a blind spot when it comes to homosexuality and the lack of gay participants. To be shocked that this is a discussion topic suggests a belief that there is an acceptance of homosexuality in everyday life let alone in football, and clearly this isn't the case.

          Good on Thomas Hitzelsperger and hopefully his decision will lead to other higher profile sportsmen and women feeling safe in 'coming out' and that in turn will allow younger people to also be encouraged to feel secure in revealing their sexual identity.

          I suspect we are nowhere near a situation where this is not a discussion point, and surely setting up forums for open dialogue is a great thing and it would be naive to think that everyone, let alone your average football supporter, is 'ok' with homosexuality. Hitzelsperger is by far the highest profile footballer to 'come out'. With football being the most male dominated sport with an archaic belief system and almost primal support base that this should be viewed as something of a red letter day, and if the discussion can remain an open and ongoing one we may one day be able to find ourselves unsurprised when finding out an elite sportsman or woman is gay.
          Last edited by Buzzo; 09-01-14, 03:00 AM.
          Modifying post.

          Comment


            #35
            Good post Buzzo.

            That Amaechi dude trains at my gym (as did Mortem Pederson). He is very, very tall.
            3rd place. Worst champions ever.

            Comment


              #36
              Buzzo, I didn't say that I don't see it as a discussion topic. I just can't get my head around the fact that it is.

              The football industry is like a relic from the Victorian era in so many ways. Homophobia, racism, greed, corruption. The grubbiness of it all.

              Why should this subset of society not have to be subjected to the same social standards as the rest of us?


              They live in blissful ignorance. A bubble. Is that acceptable? Is that where the debate should really centered?
              Oh I don't know.

              Comment


                #37
                I think that the biggest suprise and discussion point from him coming out is that he has 52 caps for Germany.
                *Except Michael, who died.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Alex View Post
                  I think that the biggest suprise and discussion point from him coming out is that he has 52 caps for Germany.
                  Precisely.
                  Oh I don't know.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    What you're saying is 100% right of course Dom, but it's not really a surprise.

                    I guess it doesn't help that football is governed by dinosaurs at FIFA, uefa & the FA. Hopefully more recent generations of footy players are more progressive in their attitude and that will translate if they get in positions of power. Problem is is that it's an old boys' club, so social retards are likely to end up hand-picked in future too.
                    3rd place. Worst champions ever.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      The discussion point is that such things are a discussion point when they shouldn't be above anything other than passing interest. If Hitlzsperger's coming out raises discussions that should have happened years ago then it's worth discussing on that respect, even if not at a personal level.
                      3rd place. Worst champions ever.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        I would say that more people than not have at least a passing interest in football in this country. The majority of those, a vested interested, they support a team. Most people in our society are completely accepting of different cultures, races, religions, sexual preference and the like.

                        So why do we, as that majority, accept football's general lack of morality? Because it's not our problem, maybe?

                        Why should the onus be on gays to come out, and not the football industry to accept them? Football just seems to get a free pass in these debates. The debate should not be about this German guy, it should be about cretinous industry he was a part of.
                        Oh I don't know.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Its not just football though is it? I mean, Homophobia exists in all parts of society. The old bloke I used to work with was a huge Homophobe (He actually told me he thought Gay people were mentally ill once) , hated football though. So I dont think its fair to say football supporters are homophobic (I know thats not really what you are saying)

                          While it is a cretinous industry as you say, its also just a reflection of society.
                          *Except Michael, who died.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Alex View Post
                            Its not just football though is it? I mean, Homophobia exists in all parts of society. The old bloke I used to work with was a huge Homophobe (He actually told me he thought Gay people were mentally ill once) , hated football though. So I dont think its fair to say football supporters are homophobic (I know thats not really what you are saying)

                            While it is a cretinous industry as you say, its also just a reflection of society.
                            It is not a reflection of society. Football supporters may form a cross section of society, but the football industry does not.

                            How many Asians play professional football? How many gays are too scared to come out and be themselves? How many black managers are there? How many black people are in board rooms, or work at the FA? How many women work in the industry, and of those, what is their job profile?

                            It is anything but a cross section of society.

                            And now I have made myself late for work.
                            Oh I don't know.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Ok thats a fair point. You never think about it in those terms.
                              *Except Michael, who died.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Alex View Post
                                Ok thats a fair point. You never think about it in those terms.
                                And that is the point I'm making.

                                This cross section of people representing every point of view, who love the game, don't feel the need to address any of these issues. It's someone else's problem.
                                Oh I don't know.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X