VAR thread

[ric.williams]

Kompany, Potch, Ange, were all in the mistakes happen camp, so they made their own bed TBH

and lego Pep

[Mr Pink]

and lego Pep

Haha he had his hypocritical hissy fit too though.

[Mr Pink]

I think the media is so poor at putting pressure on them too. I hate that show where Michael Owen interviews Howard Webb about the refereeing decisions- it’s clearly pre scripted, with a bunch of incidents/questions that Webb agreed to.

They need to stop focusing on the individual refereeing decisions, and start asking systemic questions about the refereeing protocol and structure. Eg:

1) why is it the same people who are refs one week, in the var room the next week.
2) why can’t we have access to the audio, other than the select incidents that the decide to release
3) why “clear and obvious”? Why not just whether it’s the right call or not?
4) what’s the process for assigning refs to games?
5) what’s the criteria for when var ask the ref to review a decision vs just overturning it?
Etc

Would also be good to see them do a proper statistical analysis of decisions that are given/overturned. For example there was prob around 300 penalty claims over the season, would be good to see them and look at what ones were given by the ref, given by var, not given at all, are you more likely to get them as the home team, more likely to get them when the goal wouldn’t likely change the outcome of the game, less likely to get it in the last few min of a game, etc..

[Cerbie]

I think the media is so poor at putting pressure on them too. I hate that show where Michael Owen interviews Howard Webb about the refereeing decisions- it’s clearly pre scripted, with a bunch of incidents/questions that Webb agreed to.

They need to stop focusing on the individual refereeing decisions, and start asking systemic questions about the refereeing protocol and structure. Eg:

1) why is it the same people who are refs one week, in the var room the next week.
2) why can’t we have access to the audio, other than the select incidents that the decide to release
3) why “clear and obvious”? Why not just whether it’s the right call or not?
4) what’s the process for assigning refs to games?
5) what’s the criteria for when var ask the ref to review a decision vs just overturning it?
Etc

Would also be good to see them do a proper statistical analysis of decisions that are given/overturned. For example there was prob around 300 penalty claims over the season, would be good to see them and look at what ones were given by the ref, given by var, not given at all, are you more likely to get them as the home team, more likely to get them when the goal wouldn’t likely change the outcome of the game, less likely to get it in the last few min of a game, etc..

There is a huge library of content to train AI to analyse pen or no pen. Same with offside. FIFA has a different offside system that can decide in seconds if it was on or off and show a 3D image of it. Not sure why we aren’t using that.

[RichC]

Clubs need (needed?) to take a unified approach when critiquing VAR and referee performance.

It's hard to get behind another teams VAR criticism when there was nothing but the sound of crickets chirping when we were on the receiving end of the most egregious VAR decision of this and any other season.

That should have been the catalyst for a unified approach by the clubs. Instead it was lol **** Liverpool and lets get on with our day.

Absolutely

[Buzzo]

The VAR against Coventrys winner yesterday is a joke. It’s so forensic now that it almost seems meaningless. Is football really about goals being disallowed because a forward player (not even the goal scorer) is arguably (not even close to definitively) less than a millimetre offside on a blurry picture.

It’s just not the game we want to watch.

I think they have always been reverse engineering the VAR rules. And they’ve ended up absolutely ****ing it up. It’s not about the game. It’s about this new implementation of rules the game, the spirit of the game, the reason people love the game is a distant second.

Needs a total overhaul.

[Buzzo]

[ame]https://twitter.com/derekclarksport/status/1782110742025584944[/ame]

[peterbread]

Surely if it’s that tight the benefit of the doubt should go to the attacking side. Do we want to over officiate every little detail and have these huge stoppages taking away momentum and the joy of celebrating.

Like Buzzo said the rules seem to be changing to fit VAR.

Hopefully the AI offside coming in will be better.

[Buzzo]

I just don’t think football has ever been a game watched to identify mm calls. It feels outwith the spirit of the game. Level used to mean onside. The majority of these calls are level. Football is one of the lowest scoring sports you can watch - goals should be encouraged.

The genie can’t be put in the bottle tho, we will need some form of VAR. Just not this. It’s been broadly unpredictable and ****e for years now.

[rudedog]

Im just sick to death seeing the same things said week in week out.

Money rules football and money has ruined it, there are too many snouts in the trough now and it’s hard to see how things will change.

[SB]

I don't have a problem with Forest highlighting it to be honest, someone needs to, the standard of officiating is **** and incredibly inconsistent. It really does stink. The VAR remit and the threshold for overturning a decision is a large part of the problem IMO. Because most pen decisions are subjective sticking with the on field decision not to give it is the 'right' decision under VAR even if everyone else thinks something was a penalty.

Until VAR is there to get decisions right rather than protect officials these problems will remain.

Yep 100%.

[Exiled_red]

There is a huge library of content to train AI to analyse pen or no pen. Same with offside. FIFA has a different offside system that can decide in seconds if it was on or off and show a 3D image of it. Not sure why we aren’t using that.

Problem with AI (or machine learning) training is that along with the incident you have to tell it the decision I.e. whether it is a penalty or not. That's a problem if you use the decision that the officials decided on as you are training it to be as good as our current officials which pointless.

[Cerbie]

Problem with AI (or machine learning) training is that along with the incident you have to tell it the decision I.e. whether it is a penalty or not. That's a problem if you use the decision that the officials decided on as you are training it to be as good as our current officials which pointless.

They need to create a new standard and have a panel re-ref each incident to that standard. As you say, using the on field decision would daft and it would probably break AI because it is so inconsistent!

[RichC]

Surely if it’s that tight the benefit of the doubt should go to the attacking side. Do we want to over officiate every little detail and have these huge stoppages taking away momentum and the joy of celebrating.

Like Buzzo said the rules seem to be changing to fit VAR.

Hopefully the AI offside coming in will be better.

Are the cameras refresh rate good enough to be accurate to that level ? I very much doubt it and using that still image as the example I'm not convinced it is offside anyway!

It's ruined the game but there's too much money involved.

[The_weatherman]

Why cant they be **** AND corrupt? Because thats how I see some of them.

This, given the actors, i.e. Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Russia, and the amount of money involved, is it THAT unbelievable that officiating is corrupt? Really?

We've have officiating scandals in other countries, betting scandals, doping etc.

Just look at Pep, he was even found guilty himself of doping, all the top brass who are ex-Barca had dealings with refs while at Barca. I