VAR thread

[Kenneth]

Different how?

[Fredo]

Different how?

What?

It will improve. Might take a couple of years (last and this year's), but it will come, as with any piece of technology. Doesn't just work overnight.

[RichC]

VAR is an absolute mess at the moment, the errors and inconsistencies with it are unbelievable. It’s currently not fit for purpose, the tech itself might be good enough but the implementation and use of it is nowhere close to being so

[Fredo]

It's human errors which are undermining it at the moment. It works in other countries so I cannot see why it won't work to a consistent extent here, especially as they can work back and realise these have been mistakes. There's nothing wrong with VAR, but the implementation still leaves us with issues that need sorting.

[Buzzo]

VAR is an absolute mess at the moment, the errors and inconsistencies with it are unbelievable. It’s currently not fit for purpose, the tech itself might be good enough but the implementation and use of it is nowhere close to being so

It is baffling why it is is such bad shape. The whole Stockley park is at the heart of it. Surely there is enough cash in football to have a bloke in a van somewhere outside the ground and a designated 4th (VAR) official. If VAR was owned by the match day officials I think it would work. The 'outsourcing' element is where it is breaking down.

I'm going to say again, this is how it works in Rugby Union and it is so effortless compared to this.

The decisions that have gone against us the last 2 games there is not a single person in football that would stand by them. But, with proper interpretation of the situations and use intelligent use of the tech then VAR should be making a positive impact on the game.

We are absolutely miles away from that happening.

[RichC]

It is baffling why it is is such bad shape. The whole Stockley park is at the heart of it. Surely there is enough cash in football to have a bloke in a van somewhere outside the ground and a designated 4th (VAR) official. If VAR was owned by the match day officials I think it would work. The 'outsourcing' element is where it is breaking down.

I'm going to say again, this is how it works in Rugby Union and it is so effortless compared to this.

The decisions that have gone against us the last 2 games there is not a single person in football that would stand by them. But, with proper interpretation of the situations and use intelligent use of the tech then VAR should be making a positive impact on the game.

We are absolutely miles away from that happening.

I’m amazed how badly its being used, it’s even highlighted those that are making the decisions aren’t even sure of the rules themselves and get that wrong.

Rugby, tennis and cricket all use tech successfully to make decisions, football seem to have managed to implement tech and made the absolute worst job possible.

I’m not sure there’s many sensible fans across the PL that are happy with it and the lack of clarity from refs as to the decisions doesn’t help.

[Kenneth]

It hasn't come in over night, , they've been evaluating it for years. The issue is that the focus had been on technology, but technology isn't really the issue, except maybe for tight offsides. It's the rules about its use and the incompetence of the people using it. Now the former can change, but the latter won't. As of now, VAR is embarrassing the sport as a whole in this country.

Tonight we hear VAR only checked the position of Fab's tackle, not whether it was a foul. There is absolutely no logical reason for that. Against Everton they only checked the offside, not the subsequent dangerous play, again, no rational reason why. Today Maguire fouled the Chelsea player in the box, VAR didn't even look at it. Either the rules around VAR are monumentally stupid, and or the people using it haven't a ****ing clue what they are doing. It's clear that we have two refs per game and they don't want to step on each others dicks.

There are only two ways that VAR can be run without that issue, either the on-field ref looks at everything contentious himself, with prompts to do so for any possible contentious situation, or the VAR overrides any decision that they think didn't match their own, with the help of the replays. One ref has to be responsible for the decisions made, and if we are trying to make things better than before, it's only logical that that is the ref with the best view, the VAR. The VAR should referee the match, with the on-field ref being a human whistle and card pocket imo. But either way, without radical reform, the process does not help the game, we can't even console ourselves with the idea that refs are only human and will inevitably miss things or mis-see things now, we know they had the views they needed, so trust is being degraded.

[dom9]

What?



It will improve. Might take a couple of years (last and this year's), but it will come, as with any piece of technology. Doesn't just work overnight.

Nah.

The technology is fine. But as you well know, if the end users are abusing it, then it's the process that's ****ed, not the tools.

[dom9]

It is baffling why it is is such bad shape. The whole Stockley park is at the heart of it. Surely there is enough cash in football to have a bloke in a van somewhere outside the ground and a designated 4th (VAR) official. If VAR was owned by the match day officials I think it would work. The 'outsourcing' element is where it is breaking down.



I'm going to say again, this is how it works in Rugby Union and it is so effortless compared to this.



The decisions that have gone against us the last 2 games there is not a single person in football that would stand by them. But, with proper interpretation of the situations and use intelligent use of the tech then VAR should be making a positive impact on the game.



We are absolutely miles away from that happening.

Not sure a man in a van outside the stadium would be any better than a man in an office or a man in a TV studio or a man in a pub or a man in a living room.

The location isn't the problem.

It's the idiots.

[Buzzo]

Not sure a man in a van outside the stadium would be any better than a man in an office or a man in a TV studio or a man in a pub or a man in a living room.

The location isn't the problem.

It's the idiots.

I think the location is important, n terms of the VAR official being part of the matchday refereeing team, talking about the game in advance making sure they are all on the same age. OK, the van or whatever isn't the problem but he/she should be inside or outside the stadium. That surely creates a camaraderie between the officials meaning they will work together as a team and work to the correct decision.

I don't think they are currently interested at getting to the correct decision, they are looking to protect the criteria that they are working under. The correct decision should be all that matters, however in football it seems a by-product to the rules.

[Exiled_red]

To be fair the Maguire one I can see why it wasn't referred to VAR that was from a set piece where there was alot going on, they wouldn't have known that they had to look for anything. If you have to check the pushing and pulling for every set piece delivered into the box the game will take forever. That's one that the linesman should pick up and refer to the ref/VAR official. Unless each team gets a VAR referral where they can ask the ref to look at something they think he missed, I think those type of incidents will continue to happen.

The bigger problem is the ones which are being referred to VAR and being judged inconsistently, it's getting to the point where no one knows the rules anymore: that Fabinho challenge was a foul apparently, and it occurred in the box, last week Mane was offside, and Pickford wasn't endangering an opponent. 3 out of the last 4 major VAR decisions in our last 2 games for me have been wrong (the 4th being the Salah offside was just correct).

[dom9]

I think the location is important, n terms of the VAR official being part of the matchday refereeing team, talking about the game in advance making sure they are all on the same age. OK, the van or whatever isn't the problem but he/she should be inside or outside the stadium. That surely creates a camaraderie between the officials meaning they will work together as a team and work to the correct decision.

I don't think they are currently interested at getting to the correct decision, they are looking to protect the criteria that they are working under. The correct decision should be all that matters, however in football it seems a by-product to the rules.

I kinda see where you're coming from, but in my normal working day I'm on calls with people from from 6 other time zones at various times. Even at the same time (poor Eric in Malaysia )

And all from my spare room!

Location ain't the problem. You can build camaraderie in many ways.

But there seems to be a bunch of vested interests at play here which are undermining everything.

[Fosterbloke]

Are VAR referees not watching the live game too? Surely they see the same thing we do and say "Hang on a minute!"?

I think someone should make a video of how it should be and get it out there on social media. Start putting pressure on the FA (or whoever is relevant) as a vision of how it should work.

For example show how dick hair tight decisions are waved away because they're too tight to accurately call. How rugby tackles in the area are flagged. How transparency is used (like Rugby and Aussie FA). Show us how it should work and how it would improve the game.

And all of the above could use existing controversial decisions as the basis of the video. Then get buy in from clubs and fan groups and publicise it.

[Buzzo]

I kinda see where you're coming from, but in my normal working day I'm on calls with people from from 6 other time zones at various times. Even at the same time (poor Eric in Malaysia )

And all from my spare room!

Location ain't the problem. You can build camaraderie in many ways.

But there seems to be a bunch of vested interests at play here which are undermining everything.

Yeah, possibly.

I think there is a lot of pressure on them to get to the right decision, and they are not in reality working with infinite time to do so, so anything that helps expedite that.

Thats why as mentioned here, the fact that we seem to be as far away from a process that works now as we ever have been is incredible, what were they talking about in that year prior to launch???

I thought the refs were now to go to the screens to take control of the decision (the simplest correction to make) I've not seen that at all.

As for the offsides (ie the Mane one) level is on. If the ref is looking at that and it was not flagged and we cannot clearly see by eye any offside. Then it is not offside. That one is really simple. ****ing lines with a mm difference and then you look to the frame where the pass is made and it is just a blurry mess.

Level is on.

They are also making a mess of handball.



Its unbelievable the mess it is in.

[frank the tank]

Just need to copy rugby ffs.

I can imagine all of the meetings and prep that went into this car crash of a system.

I used to think we'd have won the league 2 seasons ago if we had VAR - with that Kompany assault on salah. Not so sure now.... These ****in dopes would just come out with "it's not a clear and obvious error" bull****