Other Games 23/34/25

[Mark79]

[ame]https://twitter.com/i/status/2054674342332576086[/ame]

I dunno, that looks to me like he's got the flat of his hand in between his forehead and the ball?

[Buzzo]

The ball goes about 20 metres out for a throw in.

Watch it in real time.

Across all of the games recently (last three rounds) every single VAR decision has gone Celtics way. There have been 7. That’s not just in games they’ve been playing in. Decisions in games that impact on their trajectory. That’s teams not getting pens, but the same decisions being given.

Hearts were denied a pen for the same sort of incident v Rangers and Willie Collin came out and said incidents such as these were to be viewed as ‘footballing incidents’.

Then 4 mins past the end of injury time they get that given.

No other team than Rangers or Celtic has won the league in 40 years.

It’s bent as ****.

[Mark79]

The ball goes about 20 metres out for a throw in.

Watch it in real time.

Across all of the games recently (last three rounds) every single VAR decision has gone Celtics way. There have been 7. That’s not just in games they’ve been playing in. Decisions in games that impact on their trajectory. That’s teams not getting pens, but the same decisions being given.

Hearts were denied a pen for the same sort of incident v Rangers and Willie Collin came out and said incidents such as these were to be viewed as ‘footballing incidents’.

Then 4 mins past the end of injury time they get that given.

No other team than Rangers or Celtic has won the league in 40 years.

It’s bent as ****.

I've seen it in real time. I thought the same thing, ie his hand was sandwiched between his head and the ball and that still frame appeared to confirm it.

I don't know about all those other incidents, but I don't doubt that Celtic and Rangers get favourable treatment

[peterbread]

Could also be the Celtic player pushes his arm into that position. I don’t know how that would impact the decision but it must be taken in to consideration if you jump and naturally your arms are up but the opposition player knocks you and your arm moves inwards and makes contact with the ball.

[Buzzo]

This wasn’t given.

[ame]https://twitter.com/rbairner/status/2054679974372618723[/ame]

Nor this, to the point the head of refs clarified the ruling. Within the last few weeks.

[ame]https://twitter.com/mstewart_23/status/2054683162194681893[/ame]

[ame]https://twitter.com/mstewart_23/status/2054683478323572832[/ame]

[Sus]

This wasn’t given.

https://twitter.com/rbairner/status/2054679974372618723

Nor this, to the point the head of refs clarified the ruling. Within the last few weeks.

https://twitter.com/mstewart_23/status/2054683162194681893

https://twitter.com/mstewart_23/stat...83478323572832

That first one is such a clear handball - W...T...F

[Buzzo]

That first one is such a clear handball - W...T...F

Didn’t even go to VAR.

[rudedog]

https://twitter.com/i/status/2054674342332576086

I dunno, that looks to me like he's got the flat of his hand in between his forehead and the ball?

Even if it did hit his hand, what advantage has been gained? Has he made his outline bigger by using his hand? Definitely not, if his hand isn’t there he is still winning the ball with his head.

And to add insult to injury, the only reason he can’t get his arm completely out of the way is because the Celtic player is pushing up on his elbow

Absolutely scandalous for VAR to get involved, I’d be fuming if I was a Hearts fan. It’s definitely one of the worst VAR interventions we’ve seen.

[Mark79]

Even if it did hit his hand, what advantage has been gained? Has he made his outline bigger by using his hand? Definitely not, if his hand isn’t there he is still winning the ball with his head.

And to add insult to injury, the only reason he can’t get his arm completely out of the way is because the Celtic player is pushing up on his elbow

Absolutely scandalous for VAR to get involved, I’d be fuming if I was a Hearts fan. It’s definitely one of the worst VAR interventions we’ve seen.

That's where the common sense argument comes in. It was accidentall and he hasn't gained any advantage.

When you start applying the letter of the law though, it's gets a bit cloudy.
The bump from the Celtic shoulder does move the position of his hand, but he also already has his arm raised before that. A raised arm making contact with the ball is often going to be interpreted as handball, if you get bogged down by letter of the law.

Obviously no one wants to see that given as a pen.

[ChesterDave]

There is a screenshot doing the rounds pointing out the player had his foot over the line when he took the throw so it just mirrors the wh arsenal issue - why only enforce some of the rules.

[rudedog]

That's where the common sense argument comes in. It was accidentall and he hasn't gained any advantage.

When you start applying the letter of the law though, it's gets a bit cloudy.
The bump from the Celtic shoulder does move the position of his hand, but he also already has his arm raised before that. A raised arm making contact with the ball is often going to be interpreted as handball, if you get bogged down by letter of the law.

Obviously no one wants to see that given as a pen.

Looking at the “letter of the law” I’m not even sure there is an argument for that?

[Mark79]

Looking at the “letter of the law” I’m not even sure there is an argument for that?

We must be reading the guidelines differently then?

[rudedog]

We must be reading the guidelines differently then?

Which bit are your referring to? I’ve pasted the relevant section from the FAs website below. He definitely didn’t make his body bigger by having his hand between the ball and his head so the only other way it can be deemed an offence is if it was deliberate, which it clearly isn’t.

It is an offence if a player:

- deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball

- touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised

- scores in the opponents' goal:
directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

[Mark79]

Which bit are your referring to? I’ve pasted the relevant section from the FAs website below. He definitely didn’t make his body bigger by having his hand between the ball and his head so the only other way it can be deemed an offence is if it was deliberate, which it clearly isn’t.

It is an offence if a player:

- deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball

- touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised

- scores in the opponents' goal:
directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental


https://www.thefa.com/football-rules...and-misconduct

He goes into the challenge for the ball with his hand above shoulder height. This could be interpreted as making the body unnaturally bigger. There are exceptions, like the ball deflecting off another player, but the position of the arm being moved by contact from another player doesn't appear to be one of them?

This article pretty much says what I'm trying to say re following guidelines to the letter rather than common sense.

Obviously it's still an incredibly harsh decision.

The handball law is confusing at the best of times, but one factor has always outweighed any other.

If the arm is above shoulder height, a player is considered to be taking a massive risk and there is a much greater chance of being penalised.

As Nicholson found out on Wednesday, if the VAR thinks the ball has touched his hand or arm at head height, then it is likely to be given as a penalty.

Some will argue that the arm was in that position only because he was in a duel with Celtic's Auston Trusty, but that would carry minimal weight.

[ame]https://twitter.com/i/status/2054839208569692477[/ame]

[rudedog]

The ‘letter of the law’ is absolutely clear in this instance though, no interpretation is required

Did he make his body bigger by using his arm/hand? No, the ball hit his hand which was in front of his head. If you take away his hand, the ball would hit his head. No advantage is gained from it being there.

Was it deliberate?No, he simply cannot get his arm out of the way due to the challenge from the Celtic player. There is no reason he would want to have his hand between the ball and his head.

When you read the ‘letter of the law’, VARs decision to get involved in this just becomes even more baffling.