Simple question.

[Red Chilli]

We're ahead of Arsenal, what's your point?

[einar]

I never watched Valencia, so I can;t honestly answer.

But that's what it looks like to me out there at the moment.

Well if his plan is to have us win trophies playing like we did today then IMO we should let him go.

I want cups and creativity.

[einar]

We're ahead of Arsenal, what's your point?

We are 14 behind Scum.

[Rosco]

Well if his plan is to have us win trophies playing like we did today then IMO we should let him go.

I want cups and creativity.

I don't think it is.

IMO Bellamy would have started if he had been fit. Rafa has shown a preference for a Kuyt/Bellamy partnership because of the options it offers us. He adds a dimension to our play that we were clearly lacking today.

For me Crouch (i know you've heard it already ) is just far too limited a footballer for us to ever be successful with him in the team.

[Red Chilli]

You keep moving the goalposts.

Do you want us to play like Arsenal, Valencia or SCUM?

We haven't got the players to play like SCUM, no Rooney up front and no Ronaldo on the wing.
Arsenal are behind us so you can forget them.
Rafa's Valencia might not have suceeded in this league.

[einar]

I don't think it is.

IMO Bellamy would have started if he had been fit. Rafa has shown a preference for a Kuyt/Bellamy partnership because of the options it offers us. He adds a dimension to our play that we were clearly lacking today.

For me Crouch (i know you've heard it already ) is just far too limited a footballer for us to ever be successful with him in the team.

He probably played Crouch because they played so deep.

I agree on Crouch. He is a good player but not good enough for Liverpool to rely on.

But who is on the pitch is not what i´m on about but the whole team and their play.

[einar]

You keep moving the goalposts.

Do you want us to play like Arsenal, Valencia or SCUM?

We haven't got the players to play like SCUM, no Rooney up front and no Ronaldo on the wing.
Arsenal are behind us so you can forget them.
Rafa's Valencia might not have suceeded in this league.

My goalpost is the league. The top two and Arsenal play more pass and move then we did today.

Even a Chelsea player on the ball has more options going forward then our players most of the time.

[Rosco]

He probably played Crouch because they played so deep.

I agree on Crouch. He is a good player but not good enough for Liverpool to rely on.

But who is on the pitch is not what i´m on about but the whole team and their play.

But who is on the pitch has a very direct effect on how we can play. Particularly our choices up front. PLayers like Alonso, Garcia, Gerrard and Kuyt can play slick passing football together, many other members of the squad just aren't up to it.

Without Bellamy we can forget about hitting teams on the break. But when he's in the team if we put the ball in behind there'sa good chance he'll make something out of nothing.

With Crouch up front we can forget about pass and move because he doesn't do either well. We always end up playing it long up to him to knockdown or by trying to swing crosses in for him to get on the end (something I'm not convinced about).

Our tactics are entirely dependent on the players we can put out on the field.

[Red Chilli]

I disagree about Chelsea. If you watched them the last 2 seasons their success has been built on solidity at the back and nicking the odd goal, that's why in Mourinho's first season they won the league with a record number of points and a joint record lack of goals conceeded.
This season has been very muc the same except for the loss of Gallas and the injury to Cech, and a lesser exent Terry.
They don't play flowing pass and move football but they've won back to back titles.
SCUM have blown every team away with their attacking flair, but they have 2 exceptional players in Rooney and Ronaldo, we don't have anyone with their flair or direct attacking instinct.
Arsenal have failed to live with Chelsea in the Mourinho era so I don't see why you want us to play like them.

[Red Chilli]

Our tactics are entirely dependent on the players we can put out on the field.

Exactly, which goes back to my original point which einar and DJS disagree with.

[Shaggy]

I received a series of texts from a Crouch-hating mate of mine, basically blaming him for the defeat. BLAMING him. It's truly preposterous.

We shipped two goals before half-time and from where I was sitting, Crouch couldn't do anything about either. Riise and Jerzy could've, however. Riise is a limited footballer even when he's at his best - when he's below-par he's a complete and utter waste of space. Finnan also had a poor game today, IMO.

That said, I didn't expect Crouch to start today and we can surely only presume Bellamy isn't 100% fit. I think Fowler has a knock and I'm guessing Bellamy was on the bench as we simply had no other options. Why the **** else would he have remained on the bench for 90 minutes if that wasn't the case?

Our wing play was very poor today and it seemed to take us an hour to get a decent cross into the box. I also felt Arsenal bullied us and outfought us...which must be the first time Arsenal have ever bullied the opposition.

[einar]

But who is on the pitch has a very direct effect on how we can play. Particularly our choices up front. PLayers like Alonso, Garcia, Gerrard and Kuyt can play slick passing football together, many other members of the squad just aren't up to it.

Without Bellamy we can forget about hitting teams on the break. But when he's in the team if we put the ball in behind there'sa good chance he'll make something out of nothing.

With Crouch up front we can forget about pass and move because he doesn't do either well. We always end up playing it long up to him to knockdown or by trying to swing crosses in for him to get on the end (something I'm not convinced about).

Our tactics are entirely dependent on the players we can put out on the field.

IMO they can all play slick passing football.

Every manager has to have a plan on how to win the game.

We can play like Bolton and keep it tight and lob the ball up there and hope for the best.

But I refuse to belive that that is what Rafa wants us to do.

And even if we use Crouch to lob the ball to. After he brings it down he needs to have options going forward. When he turns other players can start running into space.

Thing is they didnt. Why?

Today was a good example of us not playing pass and move. Could we have won the game playing like we did? Absolutely.

Would we have had a better chance doing the groove. Absolutely.

[Red Chilli]

So is it today's game you're upset about or is it the Premiership?

We're better than Arsenal in the premiership and that was your stated aim, it's not pretty but its more effective than Arsenal.

[einar]

Exactly, which goes back to my original point which einar and DJS disagree with.

Pass and move ( getting tired of writing that ) has very little to do with tactics.

[einar]

So is it today's game you're upset about or is it the Premiership?

We're better than Arsenal in the premiership and that was your stated aim, it's not pretty but its more effective than Arsenal.

It is knowing that we can do much, much better.