Tom Hicks and Gillett to go 50/50

[JRC]

Surely the majority of United's money comes from Gate Receipts and TV. Their actual cash generation from Marketing is the best in the PL, but is sometimes overstated in significance - they have a habit of announcing big plans and deals which ultimately don't deliver much - Superstores in Asia, link-ups with the Yankees, Red Cafe in Dublin etc.. They have a blockbuster sponsorship, but ours was good for it's time, and late in the cycle currently, so our next Shirt Deal ought to be a big one.

Whilst our Marketing could undoubtedly be better, I'm pretty sure that the last time anything comparative was published, our income from traditional Marketing activity was at a significantly different (better) level than anyone other than Utd (including Arsenal). I'm not sure we're as hopeless as we like to claim, or even that we would be comfortable with a cynical 'milk-the-fans' mentality.

[TartanTerror]

Wow, how is the team doing? Putting the Bush connection aside I am more impressed by this Hicks fella than Gillett.

HIcks has been excellent for the Stars (I can't stand baseball - but I have a mate who is an avid Rangers fan - I will ask him about the baseball side of things). The Stars were known as the Minnesota Northstars - I believe one of the original 8 or 10 teams in the NHL. They were doing poorly and attendance was terrible -Hicks purchased the team and moved them to Dallas in 1997 - 98 (approx.) and they hoisted the Stanley Cup in 2000. The Stars have had some lean years lately - but last year they had one of the best records in the NHL. They were absolutely dismantled in the first round of the playoffs by the Colorado Avalanche - who are a perennial contender in the NHL. The Stars have a new facility, the American Airlines Center, which was a vast improvement over the old Reunion Arena - mostly due to the fact that the quality of the ice in the Reunion Arena was always terrible. In my opinion, Hickas has been very good for the franchise.

He has not been without his detractors - most notably the old Northstars fans who were (IMO understandably) irate over the fact that he would move the franchise. Everyone questioned whether Dallas would be a suitable market for hockey. Let me tell you, there are no concerns about that now. Dallas has embraced the sport and it appears that hockey is here to stay. I, for one, am encouraged that Hicks is part of the process to purchase Liverpool. However, as expressed by so many on here already, I could care less who owns the team; I just want LFC to be able to get to the next level.

[CincyRed]

Actually I think that Hicks is responsible for a lot of the problems that baseball is having. As someone mentioned he signed Alex Rodriguez for $250M over 10 years, the largest contract in American sports (that is until Beckham got the same amount over half the time). The player was signed as a free agent (bosman transfer) from Seattle. But Hicks did not invest any further in the team and they struggled for the entire time that A-Rod was there. A-Rod was then seen as untransferable because of his contract, however the Yankee's took him on to play him out of position a couple of years ago, bc well they are the Yankees.

While it would seem that him spending the money on that player was a good thing for the club, there are several reasons why it wasnt. Mainly because the amount of money was so out-of-line with the rest of the sport, it changed payscales overnight. Our now now now, ESPN highlight culture kicked in and everyone wanted A-Rod money. As a result, the wages that are being paid today (the more important part of signing a player over here since we dont have transfer fees) are ridiculous. I could quote you stats of pitchers from last year and what they got in new deals, but it would be meaningless to you. Suffice it to say, medicore pitchers are now making between 8-10 million a season compared to maybe 1-3 million five years ago. And it all goes back to A-Rod and Tom Hicks.

The other thing is that is quite clear is that he didnt care about the team or the player. At the time, he was a very high profile signing that was sure to sell a bunch of shirts as well as fill the stadium. With hindsight its clear that it wasnt about winning. There was even speculation (that A-Rod later denied), that one of the reasons why he accepted the Rangers contract was bc they offered him a large role in deciding club policy as well as his own office. A 22 year old kid.

Additionally, Owners who move clubs in this country are seen with intense distrust. Everyone hates them, bc we know that they could move our club away from us without us even given the chance to say word one. (Art Modell moved the Colts from Baltimore to Indy, practically over night while everyone was asleep). I have serious reservations about us getting involved with this guy as anyone who buys a club and then moves it, shouldn't be trusted, because how could you claim they were interested in anything other than money? Certainly, you cant claim that he cares about club traditions, because whats more traditional then where the club was founded? Not saying that he's gonna move LFC, only that its a microcosm of how he operates and whats important to him.

[Red_hot]

Actually, we could go with the entire cast of The Waltons.

Switching the floodlights off at Anfield would become a must see event...

[The Glove]

Actually I think that Hicks is responsible for a lot of the problems that baseball is having. As someone mentioned he signed Alex Rodriguez for $250M over 10 years, the largest contract in American sports (that is until Beckham got the same amount over half the time). The player was signed as a free agent (bosman transfer) from Seattle. But Hicks did not invest any further in the team and they struggled for the entire time that A-Rod was there. A-Rod was then seen as untransferable because of his contract, however the Yankee's took him on to play him out of position a couple of years ago, bc well they are the Yankees.

While it would seem that him spending the money on that player was a good thing for the club, there are several reasons why it wasnt. Mainly because the amount of money was so out-of-line with the rest of the sport, it changed payscales overnight. Our now now now, ESPN highlight culture kicked in and everyone wanted A-Rod money. As a result, the wages that are being paid today (the more important part of signing a player over here since we dont have transfer fees) are ridiculous. I could quote you stats of pitchers from last year and what they got in new deals, but it would be meaningless to you. Suffice it to say, medicore pitchers are now making between 8-10 million a season compared to maybe 1-3 million five years ago. And it all goes back to A-Rod and Tom Hicks.

The other thing is that is quite clear is that he didnt care about the team or the player. At the time, he was a very high profile signing that was sure to sell a bunch of shirts as well as fill the stadium. With hindsight its clear that it wasnt about winning. There was even speculation (that A-Rod later denied), that one of the reasons why he accepted the Rangers contract was bc they offered him a large role in deciding club policy as well as his own office. A 22 year old kid.

Additionally, Owners who move clubs in this country are seen with intense distrust. Everyone hates them, bc we know that they could move our club away from us without us even given the chance to say word one. (Art Modell moved the Colts from Baltimore to Indy, practically over night while everyone was asleep). I have serious reservations about us getting involved with this guy as anyone who buys a club and then moves it, shouldn't be trusted, because how could you claim they were interested in anything other than money? Certainly, you cant claim that he cares about club traditions, because whats more traditional then where the club was founded? Not saying that he's gonna move LFC, only that its a microcosm of how he operates and whats important to him.

Good read that mate thanks.

He seems to be a bit of an opposite to Gillett though doent he? How do you think it will work with them two?

[ineednewfootwear]

What has been the attitude of the supporters of the NHL teams, with their current owners deciding to concentrate a great deal of rescource to a 'Soccer' team?

it makes no difference. hockey went through a big change recently after the 2004/04 lockout, in which the owners wanted salary spending to be held in line with club revenue. in the end they won and since then hockey has been doing very well for itself. although it's tv contract with ESPN was up at the time of the lockout, and there follow up offer was considered lowball, the nhl ended up signing a deal with OLN and they've never looked back. players individual salaries are in still uncapped, but teams total salaries are. it's very succesful and in conjunction with the rule changes has turned a struggling sport into a winner again. these guys obviously see that and perhaps feel it's time to expand now that hockey has finally got some stability.

Does anyone follow baseball at all? I read that Hicks had signed some superstar recently, Rodriguez something? Maybe we´re gonna sign Ronaldinho

very closely, and i'm well aware of who tom hicks is. what impresses me about him is his aggresiveness in wanting to field a winner. i'd consider him financially stable, and in conjunction with gillett i think they'd make an excellent partnership as owners. i'd fell much better about this arrangement than just gillett on his own. when he signed rodriguez, who is one of the best players in baseball he set a record by offering $25M a year over ten years, so he's not prepared to skimp when it comes to securing the best talent. i don't think we'll sign ronaldinho, but i don't forsee us missing out on top players because the board won't give the money. as i said before, one thing the americans know is marketing so you can bet the liverpool brand will be well promoted around the world. with beckham now moving over here, and the yankees already having a deal in place with manchester united, i don't think it'll be long before we start to see more liverpool pre-season tours and academies and feeder deals with MLS clubs.

Actually I think that Hicks is responsible for a lot of the problems that baseball is having. As someone mentioned he signed Alex Rodriguez for $250M over 10 years, the largest contract in American sports (that is until Beckham got the same amount over half the time). The player was signed as a free agent (bosman transfer) from Seattle. But Hicks did not invest any further in the team and they struggled for the entire time that A-Rod was there. A-Rod was then seen as untransferable because of his contract, however the Yankee's took him on to play him out of position a couple of years ago, bc well they are the Yankees.

While it would seem that him spending the money on that player was a good thing for the club, there are several reasons why it wasnt. Mainly because the amount of money was so out-of-line with the rest of the sport, it changed payscales overnight. Our now now now, ESPN highlight culture kicked in and everyone wanted A-Rod money. As a result, the wages that are being paid today (the more important part of signing a player over here since we dont have transfer fees) are ridiculous. I could quote you stats of pitchers from last year and what they got in new deals, but it would be meaningless to you. Suffice it to say, medicore pitchers are now making between 8-10 million a season compared to maybe 1-3 million five years ago. And it all goes back to A-Rod and Tom Hicks.

The other thing is that is quite clear is that he didnt care about the team or the player. At the time, he was a very high profile signing that was sure to sell a bunch of shirts as well as fill the stadium. With hindsight its clear that it wasnt about winning. There was even speculation (that A-Rod later denied), that one of the reasons why he accepted the Rangers contract was bc they offered him a large role in deciding club policy as well as his own office. A 22 year old kid.

Additionally, Owners who move clubs in this country are seen with intense distrust. Everyone hates them, bc we know that they could move our club away from us without us even given the chance to say word one. (Art Modell moved the Colts from Baltimore to Indy, practically over night while everyone was asleep). I have serious reservations about us getting involved with this guy as anyone who buys a club and then moves it, shouldn't be trusted, because how could you claim they were interested in anything other than money? Certainly, you cant claim that he cares about club traditions, because whats more traditional then where the club was founded? Not saying that he's gonna move LFC, only that its a microcosm of how he operates and whats important to him.

i think you're way off on your assessment of tom hicks. to blame in spiralling salaries on him alone is a ridiculous leap and completely unprovable. he offered a-rod such a large contract because that what's the market dictated and hicks was in a position to afford it. the reason mid-level pitchers are making $10M a year is because MLB is flush with cash. most games are sold out and through merchandising their vaults are bursting. the players are just getting their cut. take a look at what hicks has done outside of baseball and you'll see how succesful a businessman he is.

people will point at gillett's previous bankruptcy as a bad sign, but to me it's a positive. the man's been down that road once before, so he knows how it can happen and what the warning signs are. to me that says he's more likely not to fail again and his recent successes along with those of tom hicks tell me that this has the potential to the be a really great thing for this club if some of those blinkered fans can just take a look at the big picture. you have a huge untapped market of 250 million people on this side of that water; a lot of ex-pats, europeans, asians, antipodeans and south americans who all crave one thing ... real football.

[CincyRed]

You might be right that its a simplification to say that they are to blame, however they started us down that path. I remember talking to my mates when that deal when down and your mistaken, it was not equivalent to other deals on the table from other clubs. The whole signing came out of the blue and was reported as significantly more than Seattle and NYY were willing to pay.

And I'd really challenge you to demonstrate that most MLB games are sold out. There are 162 games a year and all stadiums can hold at least 40K ppl. Boston is the only team that sells their season out early (all MLB games for the whole season go on sale at the same time). Many other teams such as NYY, LA Dodgers and the Cubs have regular sellouts, but many teams struggle to get 25K and attendance is frequently tied to how well the team is doing. My local club was the first professional sports club in the US in 1869 predating the Football League I believe. Only two teams have won more World Series's then us, the Cardinals and the Yankees. During the mid-70s we had what was probably the best team in the history of the league. Guess what it was called. The Big Red Machine! Other interesting fact, we won the WS in 75 and 76. LFC won the European Cup in 77 and 78. The last time LFC won the title was 1990. The last time the Reds (that's the Cincinnati Reds) won the title was...1990. Anybody have any questions about why I support Liverpool? Anyway, my point is, we have tremendous history and this is one of the best baseball towns in America, but if the teams is poor we only average about 25K ppl. The idea that the league is flush with money is incorrect. Some of the big market clubs are flush, bc despite there being a revenue sharing plan with the league, that only takes into consideration gate receipts. And I'm not sure if it has changed but Clubs actually negoitiate their own TV contracts so the teams with the biggest pull like the yanks, get the biggest contracts. So while teams like the Cubs, Yanks, Dodgers, Red Sox, and Orioles can spend tons of cash on players, small market clubs can't. And all of the high-level players know what kind of money is on offer (partially bc of A-Rod) and only go to the clubs that will pay it. We do this peculiar thing where we add all the wages of all the players on the 25-man roster for one season together for our payroll. The Yanks spend over $200m (despite there being a 50% penalty for anything over 100m) while the Reds spend about 60 and some clubs pay all 25 of their players combined less than what A-Rod makes.

And you can't defend Hick's commitment to winning as the reason he signed A-Rod. You can only look at the transfers and the results to see that. He added no players of significance during that time, partially bc he over extended himself on A-Rod. During the time that A-Rod was there, the Rangers never finished higher than second from bottom of their division. More telling than that though is Hick's record. From wikipedia,

"The year 1995 saw the beginnings of the most promise for the Rangers. With a brand new ballpark that hosted its first All-Star Game, Johnny Oates was hired as the Rangers' manager and promptly led them to an AL West division title in 1996. The first Rangers' playoff series in history, 24 years after the franchise came to Texas, saw the Rangers lose to the New York Yankees, though they did win Game 1 for their first playoff victory. Oates was named AL Manager of the Year and Juan Gonzalez was named AL MVP. The team featured a powerful lineup of hitters with Ivan Rodriguez, Will Clark, Mark McLemore, Dean Palmer, Rusty Greer, Juan Gonzalez, and Mickey Tettleton but continued to struggle with pitching – a reputation that dogs the Rangers to this day – despite having Rick Helling, Aaron Sele, and John Wetteland on their roster. Oates again led the team to AL West championships in 1998 and 1999, but en route to a second straight last place finish, Oates resigned 28 games into the 2001 season.

The Alex Rodriguez experiment

Prior to the 2001 season, star free-agent shortstop Alex Rodriguez, previously of the Seattle Mariners, was signed by the Rangers in the most lucrative deal in baseball history: a 10-year, US $252 million contract. The move was considered controversial and was frequently maligned by the media who thought that Hicks was placing too much emphasis on one player instead of spreading out money among many players, especially for a team that lacked significant pitching talent. Although Rodriguez's individual performance was outstanding, the Rangers continued to struggle, and manager Jerry Narron was fired following the 2002 season. He was replaced by seasoned manager Buck Showalter.

In the 2003 season, the Rangers finished in last place for the fourth straight year, and after a post-season fallout between Rodriguez and team management, the then-reigning AL MVP and new Rangers captain, Alex Rodriguez, was traded to the New York Yankees for Alfonso Soriano and Joaquin Arias."


You might wonder what things changed to lead to such a fall in fortunes? Well Tom Hicks bought the club from W. in 1998.

[Kinell]

Oh i really do to ey makes us feel like were just a thing you, like a mcdonalds or subway or shome ****.

But i liked this from the article: "Hicks will join a growing number of U.S. sports owners investing in the British Premiership. Tampa Bay Buccaneers owner Malcolm Glazer purchased Manchester United, the Premiership's version of the New York Yankees. Cleveland Browns owner Randy Lerner invested in the Aston Villa franchise, a lower-echelon Premiership club."

lol!

[Kinell]

I HATE us being refered to as a 'franchise'.

Oh i really do to ey makes us feel like were just a thing you, like a mcdonalds or subway or shome ****.

But i liked this from the article: "Hicks will join a growing number of U.S. sports owners investing in the British Premiership. Tampa Bay Buccaneers owner Malcolm Glazer purchased Manchester United, the Premiership's version of the New York Yankees. Cleveland Browns owner Randy Lerner invested in the Aston Villa franchise, a lower-echelon Premiership club."

lol!

[Harv]

im not sure about this Hicks fella.

I watch alot of baseball and hockey, and the Rangers are a very poor side. The Dallas Stars on the other hand are one of the best in the league...and have been for nearly 10 years. He seems like a guy who gets what he wants, he wanted Alex Rodriguez (the best player in baseball by some margin), and he got him....for way to much money. But it was to the detriment of the team.

The Stars on the other hand are well run, and have a very good overall team spirit. It has showed in the way they have been at the top of the Western Conference for the best part of 10 years.

Im sure if this take-over eventuates he will definately want to buy the "best" players for us. Gillett on the other hand seems the more sensible type of owner...he doesnt splurge money on Montreal, yet they have remained competitive since he has been in charge.

I think they will balance each other out TBH.

The only thing that worries me to some extent is the George W. Bush link, he isnt a well liked man, and im not sure if having this type of figure linked with the club is good. I may be looking to far into that aspect, but Hicks and Bush seem to have built a little partnership while in Texas....hopefully that does not continue at Liverpool

[Morph]

I hope they aren't directly involved in the transfers at all except for handing over the cash to Rafa. I like our policy at the moment, apart from the fact we're limited by a couple of million for certain transfers, Alves for example, so these guys should hopefully be able to rectify that. Just don't want to see our wage structure broken, and too many (if any) superstar transfers.

[FatTony]

One thing will be for sure, one of the first signings will be BIG, as much to show that they mean business but to also get the fans on side.

Regardless what I think about their future financing, a huge signing in the summer will happen, I'm sure.

[Roboklopp]

Wow, how is the team doing? Putting the Bush connection aside I am more impressed by this Hicks fella than Gillett.

The problem is that I find it very difficult to put that fact aside. Liverpool FC is one of the things I love most about this planet, Bush is one of the things I hate most...

[lfc4ever]

Jonathan Pearce just did a piece for BBC interactive on these 2, was insightful with some inside knowledge as to why DIC was rejected as well.

I'm becoming less & less worried as the days pass.

[Chris]

Were Gillett and Hicks at the match today, anyone know?