Rafa's best/worst signings so far

[red g]

best Alonso

Worse Josemi

At least pellegrino helped us with Zonal Marking......although he was ****e at the execution of it !!

[Ryan]

best Alonso

Worse Josemi

At least pellegrino helped us with Zonal Marking......although he was ****e at the execution of it !!

Please explain how he did this.

[dww]

Okay, I'm going to disagree with you both red_g and Ryan here. Pellegrino was a poor player for us, he was easily exposed by pace and was not able to adapt to the premierships pace or physical requirements. Rafa was wrong to offer him a 18 month playing contract, as he wasn't up to it.

However when he was in the team two things were obvious: 1/ we defended corners better and 2/ he was always talking and repositioning other defenders. When he was in the team we shipped goals because no matter how well positioned you are it is always possible to knock the ball past you at some point, being as our defence had noone with recovery pace this meant we were screwed.

So with Rafa saying he was great in training and helping the team learn along with the evidence on the pitch of how we improved in certain ways and the fact he was offered a coaching position it seems obvious he helped with learning the defensive organisation (including the zonal marking) Rafa wanted to introduce.

This was obviously part of the role Rafa bought him to do. So I would say he was a 50% failure.

[paulcooper4]

Okay, I'm going to disagree with you both red_g and Ryan here. Pellegrino was a poor player for us, he was easily exposed by pace and was not able to adapt to the premierships pace or physical requirements. Rafa was wrong to offer him a 18 month playing contract, as he wasn't up to it.

However when he was in the team two things were obvious: 1/ we defended corners better and 2/ he was always talking and repositioning other defenders. When he was in the team we shipped goals because no matter how well positioned you are it is always possible to knock the ball past you at some point, being as our defence had noone with recovery pace this meant we were screwed.

So with Rafa saying he was great in training and helping the team learn along with the evidence on the pitch of how we improved in certain ways and the fact he was offered a coaching position it seems obvious he helped with learning the defensive organisation (including the zonal marking) Rafa wanted to introduce.

This was obviously part of the role Rafa bought him to do. So I would say he was a 50% failure.

end of long thin pork sausage debate

[red g]

Please explain how he did this.

Rafa said so and also didnt Sami or was it JC they also mentioned that he helped in training??

If memory serves me right.....which it rarely does I seem to recall Zonal marking being a disater when he first started it. I believe he contributed to making it work as he has worked with Rafa for many years.

[Redspin]

Okay, I'm going to disagree with you both red_g and Ryan here. Pellegrino was a poor player for us, he was easily exposed by pace and was not able to adapt to the premierships pace or physical requirements. Rafa was wrong to offer him a 18 month playing contract, as he wasn't up to it.

However when he was in the team two things were obvious: 1/ we defended corners better and 2/ he was always talking and repositioning other defenders. When he was in the team we shipped goals because no matter how well positioned you are it is always possible to knock the ball past you at some point, being as our defence had noone with recovery pace this meant we were screwed.

So with Rafa saying he was great in training and helping the team learn along with the evidence on the pitch of how we improved in certain ways and the fact he was offered a coaching position it seems obvious he helped with learning the defensive organisation (including the zonal marking) Rafa wanted to introduce.

This was obviously part of the role Rafa bought him to do. So I would say he was a 50% failure.

The one game that he really got slated for was Southampton away when we lost 2-0. But what most people failed to mention was that Warnock was 99% of the time AWOL from his left-back position and Pellegrino was constantly having to go over to try to cover the yawning gaps left by Warnock - who has zero idea of positional play - so the centre of our defence was continually stretched. In fact every time Pellegrino was deemed to have played badly it's a pound to a penny that Warnock was at left-back

[Ryan]

What bothers me about this whole argument is that some people are under the illusion that before Pellegrino's arrival, our usual centre-halves (Sami and Carra) were some pair of thick fcuks unaware of how to properly defend.

For fcuks sake, they've always been great defenders. We've had countless defensive records with them, Henchoz, and under the tutle gae of Houllier and Thompson. They were hardly a pair of lambs in need of guidance.

And don't give me this bollox about our improvement as a solid back four coinciding wiuth Pellegrino's arrival. We were always going to take time to adjust to the change in shape, the movement of positioning further up the pitch, and zonal marking. We didn't need some Argentinian poitning his fingers round Melwood, we just needed time.

It baffles me that so many people are ready to excuse Rafa any mistake possible, and look for the positive in any rubbish situation. It's simple - Rafa brought in a ****e defender, we already had a fantastic back four, and no amount of blather about how Pellegrino helped solidify us is going to alter the fact that this was one of Rafa's more glaring mistakes.

[paulcooper4]

What bothers me about this whole argument is that some people are under the illusion that before Pellegrino's arrival, our usual centre-halves (Sami and Carra) were some pair of thick fcuks unaware of how to properly defend.

For fcuks sake, they've always been great defenders. We've had countless defensive records with them, Henchoz, and under the tutle gae of Houllier and Thompson. They were hardly a pair of lambs in need of guidance.

And don't give me this bollox about our improvement as a solid back four coinciding wiuth Pellegrino's arrival. We were always going to take time to adjust to the change in shape, the movement of positioning further up the pitch, and zonal marking. We didn't need some Argentinian poitning his fingers round Melwood, we just needed time.

It baffles me that so many people are ready to excuse Rafa any mistake possible, and look for the positive in any rubbish situation. It's simple - Rafa brought in a ****e defender, we already had a fantastic back four, and no amount of blather about how Pellegrino helped solidify us is going to alter the fact that this was one of Rafa's more glaring mistakes.

[Ryan]

You have ZERO in your locker.

[Neil Young]

What is the difference in the quality of argument between:

""

and

"If you dressed him up any more, you'd be putting lipstick on and fcukin him."

[Charlie_B]

What bothers me about this whole argument is that some people are under the illusion that before Pellegrino's arrival, our usual centre-halves (Sami and Carra) were some pair of thick fcuks unaware of how to properly defend.

For fcuks sake, they've always been great defenders. We've had countless defensive records with them, Henchoz, and under the tutle gae of Houllier and Thompson. They were hardly a pair of lambs in need of guidance.

And don't give me this bollox about our improvement as a solid back four coinciding wiuth Pellegrino's arrival. We were always going to take time to adjust to the change in shape, the movement of positioning further up the pitch, and zonal marking. We didn't need some Argentinian poitning his fingers round Melwood, we just needed time.

It baffles me that so many people are ready to excuse Rafa any mistake possible, and look for the positive in any rubbish situation. It's simple - Rafa brought in a ****e defender, we already had a fantastic back four, and no amount of blather about how Pellegrino helped solidify us is going to alter the fact that this was one of Rafa's more glaring mistakes.

Zonal marking wasn't something either of the two were used to executing. Rafa was having trouble teaching teh defence how to execute it properly. By about March 2005, we seemed to have grasped it; down, in part, to Pellegrino.

The coaches have said so, teh manager has said so, and the players have done, too.

[red g]

What bothers me about this whole argument is that some people are under the illusion that before Pellegrino's arrival, our usual centre-halves (Sami and Carra) were some pair of thick fcuks unaware of how to properly defend.

For fcuks sake, they've always been great defenders. We've had countless defensive records with them, Henchoz, and under the tutle gae of Houllier and Thompson. They were hardly a pair of lambs in need of guidance.

And don't give me this bollox about our improvement as a solid back four coinciding wiuth Pellegrino's arrival. We were always going to take time to adjust to the change in shape, the movement of positioning further up the pitch, and zonal marking. We didn't need some Argentinian poitning his fingers round Melwood, we just needed time.

It baffles me that so many people are ready to excuse Rafa any mistake possible, and look for the positive in any rubbish situation. It's simple - Rafa brought in a ****e defender, we already had a fantastic back four, and no amount of blather about how Pellegrino helped solidify us is going to alter the fact that this was one of Rafa's more glaring mistakes.

nobody is excusing Rafa any mistake possible and I, and sure Charlie has as well critiscised Rafa in the past BUT its called looking at the positives, where as you my friend concentrate on the negatives

[Richey]

I never thought a debate on whether or not Pellegrino was any good would stretch beyond 1 page! Thought it was generally accepted he was awful.

For me its a 3 way tie for worst signing between Pellegrino, Morientes and Josemi. The three of them summed up the fact that (at that stage) Benitez underestimated the quality/pace of the Premiership.

He didn't rate Finnan so bought Josemi (and would have sold Finnan to Spurs if Josemi hadn't got injured), he didn't rate Cisse so bought Morientes and I guess he didn't rate Hyypia so bought Pellegrino. All three were probably okay in Spain but too slow here.

[Charlie_B]

There's no doubt as to how ****e Pellegrino was as a player; but his influence behind the scenes is considered unparalleled

[mark1975]

What bothers me about this whole argument is that some people are under the illusion that before Pellegrino's arrival, our usual centre-halves (Sami and Carra) were some pair of thick fcuks unaware of how to properly defend.

For fcuks sake, they've always been great defenders. We've had countless defensive records with them, Henchoz, and under the tutle gae of Houllier and Thompson. They were hardly a pair of lambs in need of guidance.

And don't give me this bollox about our improvement as a solid back four coinciding wiuth Pellegrino's arrival. We were always going to take time to adjust to the change in shape, the movement of positioning further up the pitch, and zonal marking. We didn't need some Argentinian poitning his fingers round Melwood, we just needed time.

It baffles me that so many people are ready to excuse Rafa any mistake possible, and look for the positive in any rubbish situation. It's simple - Rafa brought in a ****e defender, we already had a fantastic back four, and no amount of blather about how Pellegrino helped solidify us is going to alter the fact that this was one of Rafa's more glaring mistakes.

On the head. Pelle was a joke, the only thing I'd begrudgingly give him credit for is giving Hyypia a much needed breather, keeping him fresh for our excellent CL campaign, but in fairness, ANYONE could have done the same.