a few inescapable conclusions...

[tomasjj]

Barca's game doesn't rely on ball winners per se, but on the fact that they always dictate the game and make the opposition run after the ball. That's their style of play. You need much more than that in the modern game. They were 'blown' away by our power and tempo in the first half yesterday and ought to have been 3-0 down at half time. That would have ensured we could take our foot off the pedal and try to concentrate on keeping the ball, not on pressing them.

This is my take on it as well.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=bloody and porcine;328802]

Because we didn't take our chances. We should have been two or three up before they scored their one.



I'll take performances like that every day of the week. Hit the bar twice, had one cleared off the line, crouch missed a sitter, their keeper made some good saves, and Reina had practically nothing to do.



Your one valid point. We gave the ball away too much, particularly in the second half.

my one valid point is the point everything else i said hinges on. can there honestly be anyone who watched the game that thinks that constantly giving the ball away is the mark of a great performance in every way?

Mate, read my posts above as I feel I'm repeating myself over and over again. With the amount of effort we did pressurizing, it was / is very difficult keeping the ball for long periods after having regained the ball. Try that on a football pitch and when you have the ball, try to pass and move ... meaning players don't get much rest between phases.

Rafa had a choice, and he stuck to that. Either try to play Barca off the park or settle for a counter attacking game. The latter proved successful and we qualified.

Am not sure we would have gone through if we tried to out pass Barca.

[tomasjj]

we did run after the ball and constantly won the ****in thing which i getting sick of saying - it's what we did next the majority of the time that i'm disappointed about

We did pretty well with the ball in the first half and the start of the second imo. But after all the pressing we had done in the first to win it AND create chances, we inevitably got pushed back, meaning less space to pass into, and we were also tired from our hard work in the first half which generated tons of chances. Rafa was offensive thinking, with a tactic of high pressure, shame we couldn't bag the chances.

Add the fact that we played the European champs, I can accept that we didn't keep it as well as I am sure every LFC fan on the planet would like. I don't think it is fair to expect that though, considering the game and the opposition.

[Neil Young]

if...CHANGE.

I know your heart is in the right place but to be honest I'd rather let the manager worry about all that while I just enjoy the fact that we deservedly knocked out the holders who are widely hailed as the best club side in Europe if not the world.

[badpiggy]

[QUOTE=fredo;328826]

Mate, read my posts above as I feel I'm repeating myself over and over again. With the amount of effort we did pressurizing, it was / is very difficult keeping the ball for long periods after having regained the ball. Try that on a football pitch and when you have the ball, try to pass and move ... meaning players don't get much rest between phases.

Rafa had a choice, and he stuck to that. Either try to play Barca off the park or settle for a counter attacking game. The latter proved successful and we qualified.

Am not sure we would have gone through if we tried to out pass Barca.

no offense fredo but if you're a retired top level pro footballer with management experience, i accept this criticism - otherwise it's pretty meaningless. as a matter of interest, when barca beat us 3-1 at home a few years back - and were given a standing ovation because as liverpool fans we recognized quality football - we couldn't get the ball off them. we now have what we claim to be the best midfield in the world but we can't keep the ball? at home? against a team living on reputation?

holders of the european cup means nothing. we were last year and benfica knocked us out. this year barca lose to us. were benfica totally above criticism last year? no. are we totally above riticism this year? no.

[AFII]

We gave away the ball very much because Momo again failed most of the times to pass the ball to a red shirt but the 100% fighting spirit covers well enough for the many bad passes he made.

We will get even better in the quarter finals when Mascherano probably will play instead of Momo who is suspended for the first game.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=bloody and porcine;328864]

no offense fredo but if you're a retired top level pro footballer with management experience, i accept this criticism - otherwise it's pretty meaningless. as a matter of interest, when barca beat us 3-1 at home a few years back - and were given a standing ovation because as liverpool fans we recognized quality football - we couldn't get the ball off them. we now have what we claim to be the best midfield in the world but we can't keep the ball? at home? against a team living on reputation?

holders of the european cup means nothing. we were last year and benfica knocked us out. this year barca lose to us. were benfica totally above criticism last year? no. are we totally above riticism this year? no.

We can play many styles depending on the opposition. If we had better players (at ball retention) than Barca, then I think we would have tried to take the game off them. And you have to take into consideration that it was a return leg of a tie we won 2-1 in the first game ... So, we had to be 'tactically' prepared. It's not keeping the ball for keeping the ball's sake mate ... We're there to win football matches, not have nice stats and have nothing in the end. Roy Evans teams played fantastic footy, but we've won a league cup playing like that, that's all. We even outplayed (possession wise) manure in an FA Cup final but ultimately lost the game.

These are my last words in this discussion as I think that I have made my point clear and I'm repeating myself.

[Guest]

We gave away the ball very much because Momo again failed most of the times to pass the ball to a red shirt but the 100% fighting spirit covers well enough for the many bad passes he made.

We will get even better in the quarter finals when Mascherano probably will play instead of Momo who is suspended for the first game.

That's not to say Mascherano will pass it better ... It depends on what tactics Rafa has in mind, depending on the opposition. Mascherano is less of an 'impact' player than Momo, so he's bound to keep his energy in retaining the ball (by moving and making himself available to receive and pass the ball), which is different than having to run after shadows and press the opposition.

[Diego]

come on diego - maybe in the first half but definitely not in the second.

but in truth told possession ended up being about 55 45 in for barca if i remember correctly, whilst in the first half it was about 40 60 to barca, witch tells you that both teams had about similar possesion in the second half. but they were far more dangerous, the reason to that is they did a good time closing us down in our own half and our strikers couldn't score...

what did you expect us to do, go all out attack on Barca in the second half, as soon as we would have sent 3-4 players in to attack and barca would have coutered they would have scored before we even knew we had lost the ball. we broke up play for them time and again, i can't remember watching barcelona having ever had such difficulties finding another player to pass onto, they didn't tear us apart and unlike most of their games they couldn't find space between defence and midfield, and the were inefective on the final third of the pitch, unlike most of their games their possession wasn't threatening us, cause usually they are finding each other in the feet just out side the box or even in the box but fact is most of their possession took place well far from the box where the poised little threat. but having such great players they are always likely to create something that teams cannot do anything against. in truth be told we kept barcelona quiet like few others have, yet we were more dangerous...

[tomasjj]

[QUOTE=bloody and porcine;328864]

no offense fredo but if you're a retired top level pro footballer with management experience, i accept this criticism - otherwise it's pretty meaningless. .

Hahaha... you are having a laugh mate.
Are you an ex top manager/player then?

[badpiggy]

[QUOTE=fredo;328887]

We can play many styles depending on the opposition. If we had better players (at ball retention) than Barca, then I think we would have tried to take the game off them. And you have to take into consideration that it was a return leg of a tie we won 2-1 in the first game ... So, we had to be 'tactically' prepared. It's not keeping the ball for keeping the ball's sake mate ... We're there to win football matches, not have nice stats and have nothing in the end. Roy Evans teams played fantastic footy, but we've won a league cup playing like that, that's all. We even outplayed (possession wise) manure in an FA Cup final but ultimately lost the game.

These are my last words in this discussion as I think that I have made my point clear and I'm repeating myself.

come on fredo- one more reply? if we had better players we would have finished the game in the first half and held onto the ball in the second half and that would have made us better to watch and appear less negative? that's what i've been saying in a way except we supposedly have the best midfield in the world in sg, xabi and momo and i don't see how it's expecting too much to assume that at least two of these guys can hang on to the ball. unless they have been istructed otherwise - negative approach by definition. or they can't against a barcelona team that were a combination of actually being **** and being made to look **** by our harrying pressing - this equals overrated midfield...

[Laddsy]

[QUOTE=bloody and porcine;328914]

come on fredo- one more reply? if we had better players we would have finished the game in the first half and held onto the ball in the second half and that would have made us better to watch and appear less negative? that's what i've been saying in a way except we supposedly have the best midfield in the world in sg, xabi and momo and i don't see how it's expecting too much to assume that at least two of these guys can hang on to the ball. unless they have been istructed otherwise - negative approach by definition. or they can't against a barcelona team that were a combination of actually being **** and being made to look **** by our harrying pressing - this equals overrated midfield...

Its so ****ing simple



We played at a high tempo 1st half and we couldn't buy a goal

in the second half we were tired, but we still pressed for a goal. WE COULDN'T ****ING FIND IT

now thats not rocket science

[Guest]

[QUOTE=bloody and porcine;328914]

come on fredo- one more reply? if we had better players we would have finished the game in the first half and held onto the ball in the second half and that would have made us better to watch and appear less negative? that's what i've been saying in a way except we supposedly have the best midfield in the world in sg, xabi and momo and i don't see how it's expecting too much to assume that at least two of these guys can hang on to the ball. unless they have been istructed otherwise - negative approach by definition. or they can't against a barcelona team that were a combination of actually being **** and being made to look **** by our harrying pressing - this equals overrated midfield...

That would be my last one.

Rafa chose to play that way (i.e surrendering possession in the first place). That's it. In another game we'll play differently.

We won, they lost.

[friedk]

The fact is, if it hadn't been for the post (twice) and their 'keeper being their best player on the pitch pulling off a string of great saves, we would have won that game confortably.

It was close in the last 15 minutes, but still in that time Gerrard and Crouch had the two best chances to score.

Were we tired and nervous against Barcelona after conceding? Of course we were, no team in the world wouldn't be.

Should we have held on to the ball better, probably. But don't let that take away from the fact that tactically and offensively we were the better team on the night and over the two legs.

[tomasjj]

[QUOTE=Laddsy;328922]

Its so ****ing simple



We played at a high tempo 1st half and we couldn't buy a goal

in the second half we were tired, but we still pressed for a goal. WE COULDN'T ****ING FIND IT

now thats not rocket science

To some, it apparently is.
Either he is being real stubborn, or he is just on a wind up.