"Supporter" banned for racism

[Neil Young]

As I said in the previous thread about this same subject, no matter who they play thousands of Mancs sing abusive songs about Scousers yet that's not classed as racism and they can get away with it. I'm not condoning it but one knobhead says something offensive, presumably about one of United's black players and (quite rightly) he gets banned and fined but it creates all this negative publicity.

In the other thread racism was defined as not just about somebody's colour but their country of origin, i.e. you can't shout "you Welsh *******" at Craig Bellamy but it's OK to call Gerrard or Carragher a "Scouse *******...

By that standard, should you be calling them "Mancs" then?

[Parm]

spot on

[ronan]

a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.




racism is by definition abusing someone because of their creed.
i.e skin colour or religon

so basically its allright to call them a manc ****

[anfieldanfield]

It was probably the right decision, but what exactly was said?

I have worries after the Goody "poppodom" comment that the UK has gone pc mad.

Goody was ripped apart for calling Shilpa "The Indian"

The world *is* a bit mad.

[rushscored4]

By that standard, should you be calling them "Mancs" then?

Sorry, "Mancs" is obviously an accepted abbreviation of "Mancunians". I don't have a problem with people calling us Scousers, because that's what a few of us are, but I do object to being called (for example) a "Scouse *******" or somebody singing about putting us on a bonfire. I also find it equally unacceptable when our so-called 'fans' sing about Harold Shipman or crashing aeroplanes before you ask...

[Neil Young]

a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.




racism is by definition abusing someone because of their creed.
i.e skin colour or religon

so basically its allright to call them a manc ****

Well, racism is, by definition, being prejudiced against someone because of their race, hence the word.

However, race is a very tricky concept and highly questionable in its own right. Anti-Jewish prejudice is classed as racism even though the Jews are, in strictly biological terms, not a distinct race - Semitic peoples include Arabs and anyway Semites aren't a distinct race.

So racism has been broadened to include some cultural/religious characteristics yet not others - hence the perceived need for this recent offence of incitement to religious hatred.

Therefore if we're going to start including some non-biological factors, why stop arbitrarily at religion and nationhood when regional identity is very important to some.

[Neil Young]

Sorry, "Mancs" is obviously an accepted abbreviation of "Mancunians". I don't have a problem with people calling us Scousers, because that's what a few of us are, but I do object to being called (for example) a "Scouse *******" or somebody singing about putting us on a bonfire. I also find it equally unacceptable when our so-called 'fans' sing about Harold Shipman or crashing aeroplanes before you ask...

Yes, I see that of course and I completely understand where you're coming from.

The thing is, "Manc" is something of a term of abuse among some here. I wonder if it would be as popular if it didn't echo the word "manky."

Also I seem to remember this being discussed before but there is a reasonable argument to be made (and I confess to having sympathy for it myself) that abbreviation of labels is itself potentially discriminatory or at least patronising. Of course there is a very obvious example of this (so I won't bother saying it) and some that are more debatable - e.g. "Brit," a term which I personally dislike. I think "Manc" is dubious but I don't think anyone's necessarily bigoted just because they use it, they just see it differently from me.

[rushscored4]

Yes, I see that of course and I completely understand where you're coming from. The thing is, "Manc" is something of a term of abuse among some here. I wonder if it would be as popular if it didn't echo the word "manky." Also I seem to remember this being discussed before but there is a reasonable argument to be made (and I confess to having sympathy for it myself) that abbreviation of labels is itself potentially discriminatory or at least patronising. Of course there is a very obvious example of this (so I won't bother saying it) and some that are more debatable - e.g. "Brit," a term which I personally dislike. I think "Manc" is dubious but I don't think anyone's necessarily bigoted just because they use it, they just see it differently from me.

Fair enough, Neil, but the word 'Manc' is used by Mancunians as well as other people! I personally prefer to call myself a 'Liverpudlian' rather than a 'Scouser' because that word has sadly now become almost synonymous with thieving scallywags and work-shy 'chavs' thanks to 25 years of TV stereotypes like "Boys From The Blackstuff", "Brookside", "Bread" and "The Harry Enfield Show"...

These same lazy stereotypes are even repeated regularly on this website by other so-called Liverpool fans...

[Neil Young]

Fair enough, Neil, but the word 'Manc' is used by Mancunians as well as other people! I personally prefer to call myself a 'Liverpudlian' rather than a 'Scouser' because that word has sadly now become almost synonymous with thieving scallywags and work-shy 'chavs' thanks to 25 years of TV stereotypes like "Boys From The Blackstuff", "Brookside", "Bread" and "The Harry Enfield Show"...

These same lazy stereotypes are even repeated regularly on this website by other so-called Liverpool fans...

Good point - I've probably used it myself on occasion too. It just shows how tricky all this is. I think you've got a good point about terms like "Scouse b*st*rds" by the way. The simple and, perhaps, sad fact is that many people would not see "Scouse" and, say, "black" as comparable qualifiers. Education is certainly the answer.

[redblood]

I also find it equally unacceptable when our so-called 'fans' sing about Harold Shipman or crashing aeroplanes before you ask...

Why? are aeroplanes a race now?!!

[Kaip]

COUGH library COUGH

[redblood]

Yes, I see that of course and I completely understand where you're coming from.

The thing is, "Manc" is something of a term of abuse among some here. I wonder if it would be as popular if it didn't echo the word "manky."

Also I seem to remember this being discussed before but there is a reasonable argument to be made (and I confess to having sympathy for it myself) that abbreviation of labels is itself potentially discriminatory or at least patronising. Of course there is a very obvious example of this (so I won't bother saying it) and some that are more debatable - e.g. "Brit," a term which I personally dislike. I think "Manc" is dubious but I don't think anyone's necessarily bigoted just because they use it, they just see it differently from me.

I think the reason why these words used in that form may be found offensive is usually because they are in association with other words or situations that have made them sound derogatory.
E.g. Manc Scum, Manc ****s, Manc *******s, Jammy Manc Kunts.
Which I personally think is the proper term for Manchester United but thats just me.

[rushscored4]

Why? are aeroplanes a race now?!!

The 'aeroplanos' (or 'planes') people originate from a particularly damp region of Western Iberia, hence the phrase "the rain in Spain falls mainly on 'the Planes'..."

[redblood]

[Mumsafan]

Well i was in Anfield Rd end a few years ago and someone from behind towards the left shouted towards Distin..."You DUTCH ****!!!!!"....few seconds later, i hear another voice from the right shouting..."He's ****in French u ****!!!!!"

I've heard idiots shout stuff akin to this, not just about players, about teams as well. Makes you cringe