Dave Usher Rant - TLW

[The Glove]

don't know about that mate, he obviously did give a **** hence the two page spread which answered most of the questions well appart from the transparency issue, but like he said they've never done that before so why would they start now, it's not going to change a thing is it. Suppose 3 or 4 k went to corporate types what is anyone going to do about it, it wont change the matter will it. At the end of the day it's a combination of uefa's ****ty ticket structure and the unprecedented demand we had for tickets, sometimes **** happens doesn't it.

If 3 or 4k went to corporate types then there wouldnt be this uproar if they were honest about it. Yes, people would be pissed off but atleast they know the truth. At the end of the day people just want the club to be honest about it. Youre right, **** all is gonna change but hiding things leaves a nasty taste for all concerned dont you think?

Oh and if he had answered the questions put to him rather than fob them off he couldve had a 4 page spread which would show he'd give more of a **** would it?

[RedJedi]

But if it's not something we've ever done before then why do it now on this occasion, it won't achieve diddly squat at the end of the day.

There would be one of three outcomes probably:

The ticket allocations look fair and reasonable - everyone leaves it at that

The ticket allocations look a bit like favouring the corporates - some will have a moan but ultimately realise thats, thats one of the reasons we can afford to the likes of SG at the club and buy new players

The ticket allocations look a lot like favouring the corporates - Everyone starts making protests about how the fans have been poorly treated, taking away from the final and taking away from the buildup because we'll probably end up in the news etc. (my guess is this one)

Let's be honest here, it's not just our club where the allocations happen like this it's all of the top clubs, it's nothing particular to our club it's football in general.

Because its never been known that so many fans who go the game havent got tickets.

We just wanna know why

[Morph]

If 3 or 4k went to corporate types then there wouldnt be this uproar if they were honest about it. Yes, people would be pissed off but atleast they know the truth. At the end of the day people just want the club to be honest about it. Youre right, **** all is gonna change but hiding things leaves a nasty taste for all concerned dont you think?

The thing is no one gave a **** in 2005 so why is 2007 any different? 1. Uefa's allocation is lower 2. Maybe we have a few more glory hunters than we did in 2005

Oh and if he had answered the questions put to him rather than fob them off he couldve had a 4 page spread which would show he'd give more of a **** would it?

No, but at the end of the day he didn't have to give the interview

[Morph]

Because its never been known that so many fans who go the game havent got tickets.

We just wanna know why

How do you know if numbers haven't been released, the club have definitely shot themselves in the foot with making this ballot business public

[The Glove]

Because in 2005 loyalty was rewarded and this time round loyalty seems to have been misplaced somewhere and every thinks its been shafted in favour of corporates. No one seems to know and thats why they want answers. Everyone knew what happened in 2005, thats not the case in 2007 is it?

[Morph]

Because in 2005 loyalty was rewarded and this time round loyalty seems to have been misplaced somewhere and every thinks its been shafted in favour of corporates. No one seems to know and thats why they want answers. Everyone knew what happened in 2005, thats not the case in 2007 is it?

Loyalty was rewarded in 2005 because there were enough tickets to satisfy every fan who had been to at least 6 games, this year there weren't enough tickets to satisfy all fans who had been to six games so the ballot had to happen didn't it. Everyone didn't know what happened in 05 because numbers didn't get published just like they wont this season

[alunevans]

But if it's not something we've ever done before then why do it now on this occasion, it won't achieve diddly squat at the end of the day.

There would be one of three outcomes probably:

The ticket allocations look fair and reasonable - everyone leaves it at that

The ticket allocations look a bit like favouring the corporates - some will have a moan but ultimately realise thats, thats one of the reasons we can afford to the likes of SG at the club and buy new players

The ticket allocations look a lot like favouring the corporates - Everyone starts making protests about how the fans have been poorly treated, taking away from the final and taking away from the buildup because we'll probably end up in the news etc. (my guess is this one)

Let's be honest here, it's not just our club where the allocations happen like this it's all of the top clubs, it's nothing particular to our club it's football in general.

Morph

If the allocations end up looking fair and reasonable and it all ends here thats a good outcome.

If they favour the corporates to a mild extent but everyone judges that this is the price of having Steven Gerrard (not sure I agree with that yet) then thats a good outcome.

If it shows that we've been well and truly shafted then there NEEDS to be an uproar cos otherwise whats the point of going week in week out if it happens again. We may as well just watch it for free in what from july will be a smoke free pub.

I spend a grand on LFC every year. If I know that the big occasions are always likely to favour the corporates and us get the dregs then it actually makes sense for me not to go to the games if i want to go to the finals.

Had I saved up that grand, I'd be going to Greece on the 23rd because I'd have paid a little less than that to a tout.

We need to know who goes to the final. Is it the corporates excessively? If it is, we need to demand change. But knowledge is the first step.

Otherwise it allows those who say "stop moaning you don't know the facts" to silence people.

So lets know the facts. Unless the club have stiffed us there is no reason to hide them when there is this amount of bad feeling. And if they have stiffed us then nothing will change THIS time but it at least gives us the chance to force some change for the future.

We don't have to be passive fools being **** on and accepting it. We can express our outrage to the club in the hope (vain or otherwise) of making some changes.

And even if no change comes, we can at least make the informed decision whether we're prepared to spend a grand a year giving them our loyalty or not, or whether to support them closely from afar for free.

If being loyal gives me less chance of going to a final (and it does because I've spent the grand that would buy me a cup final ticket watching a ****ty league season amongst other things etc) then I need to know that frankly.

It's basic information. So what that they've never told us before. We smell a rat (and by the looks so do you) so we're very angry this time. We've not been angry enough to DEMAND it before. That's what's changed.

If they give a **** about us (ha!) then they'll let the information be known.

Once they do, I'll decide whether I'll be spending future seasons in a nice warm smokefree pub watching the reds each game on Scando telly, saving up my ticket money for a potential final - or whether I'll be as loyal as I've always been.

I thought loyalty would be the way to get me to our moments of history. I've now sussed that watching it free on scando tv would give me a better chance of being there with the corporate pricks and the poor fleeced devotees.

So why does it make sense for me to be loyal?

If I have the figures, I can make that call. At the moment, I feel like Dave Usher's Dad.

I don't know why anybody would support the club's furtive secrecy.

[alunevans]

If 3 or 4k went to corporate types then there wouldnt be this uproar if they were honest about it. Yes, people would be pissed off but atleast they know the truth. At the end of the day people just want the club to be honest about it. Youre right, **** all is gonna change but hiding things leaves a nasty taste for all concerned dont you think?

Oh and if he had answered the questions put to him rather than fob them off he couldve had a 4 page spread which would show he'd give more of a **** would it?

[alunevans]

Because in 2005 loyalty was rewarded and this time round loyalty seems to have been misplaced somewhere and every thinks its been shafted in favour of corporates. No one seems to know and thats why they want answers. Everyone knew what happened in 2005, thats not the case in 2007 is it?

Spot on lad! Spot on!!!

[The Glove]

No one is bothered by a ballot so long as it looks honest. People accept there were less tickets. People just want to know how the ticket numbers broke down. They told us that 4k went to people with 7+ credits, they never told us that last time. Why tell us some of the figures and not the rest?

OK people were sorted for tickets last time but now its not so much the fact people didnt get tickets this time, its the fact the club are making it look like something has gone on with tickets that people couldve had. Now about half the ground in Athens will have paid about £500 per ticket and thats not fair especailly as it looks like the club itself has added to this amount of people.

[alunevans]

No one is bothered by a ballot so long as it looks honest. People accept there were less tickets. People just want to know how the ticket numbers broke down. They told us that 4k went to people with 7+ credits, they never told us that last time. Why tell us some of the figures and not the rest?

OK people were sorted for tickets last time but now its not so much the fact people didnt get tickets this time, its the fact the club are making it look like something has gone on with tickets that people couldve had. Now about half the ground in Athens will have paid about £500 per ticket and thats not fair especailly as it looks like the club itself has added to this amount of people.

Exactly mate. Of course thats not fair. And any dope who went to all the matches who can't now afford £500 (ie me!) would have had that nicely saved up.

If I'd said screw you when it came to renewing my season ticket then I'd have my Athens ticket now by using that money. And at a tout price of £500 I'd still have £100 or thereabouts left over for spends.

Makes ya think doesn't it.

[Morph]

Morph

If the allocations end up looking fair and reasonable and it all ends here thats a good outcome.

If they favour the corporates to a mild extent but everyone judges that this is the price of having Steven Gerrard (not sure I agree with that yet) then thats a good outcome.

If it shows that we've been well and truly shafted then there NEEDS to be an uproar cos otherwise whats the point of going week in week out if it happens again. We may as well just watch it for free in what from july will be a smoke free pub.

I spend a grand on LFC every year. If I know that the big occasions are always likely to favour the corporates and us get the dregs then it actually makes sense for me not to go to the games if i want to go to the finals.

Had I saved up that grand, I'd be going to Greece on the 23rd because I'd have paid a little less than that to a tout.

We need to know who goes to the final. Is it the corporates excessively? If it is, we need to demand change. But knowledge is the first step.

Otherwise it allows those who say "stop moaning you don't know the facts" to silence people.

So lets know the facts. Unless the club have stiffed us there is no reason to hide them when there is this amount of bad feeling. And if they have stiffed us then nothing will change THIS time but it at least gives us the chance to force some change for the future.

We don't have to be passive fools being **** on and accepting it. We can express our outrage to the club in the hope (vain or otherwise) of making some changes.

And even if no change comes, we can at least make the informed decision whether we're prepared to spend a grand a year giving them our loyalty or not, or whether to support them closely from afar for free.

If being loyal gives me less chance of going to a final (and it does because I've spent the grand that would buy me a cup final ticket watching a ****ty league season amongst other things etc) then I need to know that frankly.

It's basic information. So what that they've never told us before. We smell a rat (and by the looks so do you) so we're very angry this time. We've not been angry enough to DEMAND it before. That's what's changed.

If they give a **** about us (ha!) then they'll let the information be known.

Once they do, I'll decide whether I'll be spending future seasons in a nice warm smokefree pub watching the reds each game on Scando telly, saving up my ticket money for a potential final - or whether I'll be as loyal as I've always been.

I thought loyalty would be the way to get me to our moments of history. I've now sussed that watching it free on scando tv would give me a better chance of being there with the corporate pricks and the poor fleeced devotees.

So why does it make sense for me to be loyal?

If I have the figures, I can make that call. At the moment, I feel like Dave Usher's Dad.

I don't know why anybody would support the club's furtive secrecy.

To be honest mate I agree with most of what you say there, but there's a few things that probably the club didn't account for

- They probably didn't account for the huge rise in ppl who had been to 6 games or more compared to 2005, it wouldn't have made any difference in uefa's allocation, but it might have given them a different idea for distribution

-They also probably didn't account for getting a piss poor allocation in the final another 3 or 4k worth of tickets like in 2005 and I doubt there would have been this uproar (lets forget that 17k is really a poor number, thats less than half of those who attended the chelsea semi)

Now with regards to the transparency issue it's hard debating without the facts, but I think it's safe to assume that the club until hicks and gillet really wasn't financially well off and needed to get money from corporate sources to fund transfers etc, which is why the allocations have worked out this way. Maybe it wont be the same in future seasons, or maybe it'll be worse when he have more corporates in the new stadium.

What I wouldn't be against, is the numbers being published at the AGM, lets just let it lie for the time being we've got a final to get prepared for, lets not tarnish the last game of the season and try not to get to down about it for the next 10 or so days. I don't think it's necessary that the the club publish it now because it wont change anything now and might only cause more unrest

nice post tho mate

[The Glove]

We wont have AGM's anymore mate. Now is the time they should put fans minds at rest. Its leaving a cloud over the whole thing.

[Morph]

If I'd said screw you when it came to renewing my season ticket then I'd have my Athens ticket now by using that money. And at a tout price of £500 I'd still have £100 or thereabouts left over for spends.

Makes ya think doesn't it.

If you do say screw in the future about the season ticket mate i'll take it off your hands

[alunevans]

cheers morph. i see where you're coming from but we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. if i'd pulled a fast one then deferring it to the agm would be a good tactic for me. i know from past experience that people only get answers to their anger if they push while they're angry.

if the club had no option to do it this way then they can at least explain to us why the numbers are there. it'd make us feel like we matter at least. if it's fair do's then we'll accept it i'm sure.

i also want to find out how it will be in future years.

i'd gladly trade matches in the rain against watford, charlton, wigan, bolton and middlesboro and the likes for this one in athens, especially if i get to see them ****e games in the local pub anyhow.

so if thats what it will take to be present during the key moments of my clubs history, then thats what i'll do.