Jamie Carragher - above criticism?

[Neil Young]

i agree about finnan and rise but the point is that CB is SUCH a key spot that if we got a cannavaro, a gallas or a young hyppia, it'd advance the team more than any fullback

I really don't agree. First, full backs get far more time in possession than virtually any other player on the pitch so how they use the ball is crucial. Second, and as a consequence of the first point, they are dual purpose to a degree centre-backs usually aren't - i.e. they influence the team's ability both to attack and to defend so you need to take both into account when judging what they add to the team...or how far they "hold it back". Third, I would contend that replacing Carra with someone better would be harder to do than replacing Finnan or Riise because there aren't so many players around who would be better. That's not to say Carra is the best defender in the world but we'd lose quite a lot without him there.

In short, for all his faults (and there really aren't that many of those), I think you are underestimating his contribution to the team. I think Rafa would be looking to replace him if that weren't the case.

[Lecter]

neither of these 2 players fall in that category. both were replaced with superior players in hansen and souey and lfc was not the worse for the passing of either. casey played another 5+ years at brighton and southampton - there werent too many clamours for his return

whelan i'll give you

IMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Case was actually replaced by Sammy Lee NOT Souness

[DannyMan2006]

If one of them had ran back to the goal line they could have cleared before the shot went in. JC is above real criticism, but he just bent down and pulled his socks up, he should have been sprinting back to cover.

Have to say I can't remember all this and have avoided watching a replay, but my mate and a load of others I know say it was Agger at fault for the first goal (played Inzaghi onside?) and also for the second goal, again played inzaghi onsde.

I do remember that if one of those defenders had ran on they may have been able to clear it as it was a slow shot.

[enema of the state]

Case was actually replaced by Sammy Lee NOT Souness

sammy lee had been around more than 3 years by the time casey left.

souness took his role as the teams enforcer

lee never made the rm berth his own on a permenant basis - craig johnstone came on the scene very shortly after (1st choice by spring '82) with sammy often featuring inside

we were both there i'm sure - but then you psych issues probably affected your memory

[Lecter]

sammy lee had been around more than 3 years by the time casey left.

souness took his role as the teams enforcer

lee never made the rm berth his own on a permenant basis - craig johnstone came on the scene very shortly after with sammy often featuring inside

we were both there i'm sure - but then you psych issues probably affected your memory

Case left in 1981

Lee played right midfield for a year or so until Terry Mac left (1982) then he moved inside before being deposed by Wark

Steve Nicol & Johnston actually played right midfield after Lee moved inside rotating (yes it was around even then)

But then my memories not quite as good as it was

[Lecter]

sammy lee had been around more than 3 years by the time casey left.:

Another two years passed by before he eventually displaced Jimmy Case on the right side of midfield permanently and made the number eight shirt his own.

[Mr Tourette]

Short memories. Since moving to centre half Jamie Carragher has been absolutely immense, you can count the glaring errors hes made in 3 years on one hand, we surely owe him a huge debt for number 5 - his performances against juve, chelsea and milan kept us alive. I simply cannot believe that any fan would even contemplate replacing him. I honestly would not swap him for any defender in the world. I know John terry is better, i know rio ferdinand is better technically - but i wouldnt swap them. He must be the most unlucky bloke around to be such a consistently good player to be around at a time when he still cant get a game for england.

There are better areas to talk about fellas - carra is a legend and the absolute heart of our team. Take him out and your left with only 'big time' steve gerrard as a player with true roots and thats not something id want.

[DannyMan2006]

Short memories. Since moving to centre half Jamie Carragher has been absolutely immense, you can count the glaring errors hes made in 3 years on one hand, we surely owe him a huge debt for number 5 - his performances against juve, chelsea and milan kept us alive. I simply cannot believe that any fan would even contemplate replacing him. I honestly would not swap him for any defender in the world. I know John terry is better, i know rio ferdinand is better technically - but i wouldnt swap them. He must be the most unlucky bloke around to be such a consistently good player to be around at a time when he still cant get a game for england.

There are better areas to talk about fellas - carra is a legend and the absolute heart of our team. Take him out and your left with only 'big time' steve gerrard as a player with true roots and thats not something id want.

Agree with everything but the sarcasm about Stevie G.

[Roboklopp]

Short memories. Since moving to centre half Jamie Carragher has been absolutely immense, you can count the glaring errors hes made in 3 years on one hand, we surely owe him a huge debt for number 5 - his performances against juve, chelsea and milan kept us alive. I simply cannot believe that any fan would even contemplate replacing him. I honestly would not swap him for any defender in the world. I know John terry is better, i know rio ferdinand is better technically - but i wouldnt swap them. He must be the most unlucky bloke around to be such a consistently good player to be around at a time when he still cant get a game for england.

There are better areas to talk about fellas - carra is a legend and the absolute heart of our team. Take him out and your left with only 'big time' steve gerrard as a player with true roots and thats not something id want.

[bigfooty]

Carra had an off day against Milan, he certainly wasn't at his best and we missed the typical lunging Carra tackles and blocks. But he wasn't the only one and really the game was lost at the other end of the pitch, had we scored when having the better of the ball then Milan would have seen their confidence drain.

[dww]

not really - 2-3 years ago yes maybe - but nesta and maldini both fall into the hyppia category of being top top class defenders now slightly over the hill.
I thought their right back was excellent going forward but struggled v kewell late on. jankolowsky or whoever wouldnt get in our side

I was talking more systematically than player-wise, but I think the fact that their defence remains ****ing good despite percieved weaknesses in the players is the key here. I have real probelms with you claiming Nesta (who has by all accounts had a good season) is past it yet Cannavaro (who by all accounts has been found wanting in Spain) is still a top player.

I genuinely believe that Carragher and Agger have the right attributes to be a top class pairing. I don't think for a second that you can pick a centreback in isolation. I don't think there is a player available who is any better than Carra and there are only about 5 or 6 at the very most in the world anyway in his position. I think he has been key to our good defensive play under Rafa.

The only weakness of our current back four is for pace and I have always thought that in a system with one or two holdiong midfielders it is more important to have pacy fullbacks than centrebacks.

[Marky]

He's one of the untouchables in our side i think but i was a little pissed off with his comments the other night. I don't know how he can say Milan deserved to win when we battered them all over the park but just didn't have the cutting edge.
I think he's trying to be honest in truth but i think he was wrong in what he was saying.

[Darth Marty]

im having trouble believing this thread, granted he didnt have his best evening on wednesday, but then neither did anyone. From both teams. I totally 100% agree that no one gets the privelage of wearing our shirt without performing week in week out and deserving it, but then J.C always meets those criteria. And as for "theres better c.b's out there, more class"etc etc...dont talk bollocks...as a defender a lot of things make you the player you are, and heart, commitment and desire are at the forefront of that...does that mean in your ****ed up logic that rio ferdinand is a better player than J.C? cos he ponces about with the ball, looks good whilst giving the ball away, **** that ****....theres not one defender in the world id choose above carra at this time, id put john terry up there with him but because he also shows me the total commitment, desire and heart needed to be a truly legendary defender. I cant believe some of you guys are slating J.C, ****ing unbelievable....

[Neil Young]

He's one of the untouchables in our side i thinnk but i was a little pissed off with his comments the other night. I don't know how he can say Milan deserved to win when we battered tehm all over the park but just didn't have the cutting edge.
I think he's trying to be honest in truth but i think he was wrong in what he was saying.

I think he was just being sportsmanlike. IIRC he said Milan took their chances so deserved to win. It's a fair enough point of view. Ultimately territorial supremacy means nothing - the team that scores more goals wins.

I actually found all our players' response after the match really refreshing to hear and it did them, the manager and the club credit.

[Roboklopp]

aye darth & aye neil