A Critical Evaluation of Rafa

[LFD]

Ok, we don't finish comfortably behind chelsea and united because our players are worse, it's because...erm......oh:whatever:

Daniel Agger is NOT better than Rio Ferdinand.

We didn't finish behind United because Ferdinand is better than Agger or vice versa.

The main reason we finished behind was because United's midfield scored so many goals compared to ours:-

Liverpool Midfielders

Alonso - 29 Starts, 3 Goals
Garcia – 11 Starts, 3 Goals
Gerrard – 35 Starts, 7 Goals
Gonzalez – 14 Starts, 1 Goal
Kewell – 0 Starts, 0 Goals
Mascherano – 10 Starts, 0 Goals
Pennant – 20 Starts, 1 Goal
Zenden – 9 Starts, 0 Goals

Total – 15 goals

Manchester United Midfielders

Carrick – 29 Starts, 3 Goals
Fletcher – 16 Starts, 3 Goals
Giggs, 25 Starts, 4 Goals
Richardson – 8 Starts, 1 Goal
Ronaldo – 31 Starts, 15 Goals
Scholes – 29 Starts, 6 Goals
Park – 8 Starts, 5 Goals

Total – 37

That's the biggest difference between the two teams.

[Red_Al_77]

Agger cost £5m Ferdinand cost £30m. Pound for pound Agger is better. Ferdinand is over-rated. He suffers from cronic lapses in concentration. Agger scores goal-of-the season contenders. Ferdinand scores own goals of the highest quality.

[Morph]

tbh these stats show why we dont have the best defense in the league, they are great when at home where we keep the ball and they have little or no pressure, but away from home where we struggle to keep the ball and they have pressure they concede more than the other top two.
Our defense is good enough to win us the league but our ability to score goals and not concede them away from home is not.
Why do we not keep the ball as well away from home? Mainly because teams let us have it and play in front of them at Anfield, scary really.

It's a fair point, but going back to the previous year we only conceded 3 more goals than the best defense which was Chelsea, still our away goals conceded was only the second highest and still lower by a good 9 goals than the mancs.

I take the point about conceding more under pressure, but isn't it fair to say the top two don't experience the same pressures because they have the creative ability to score more goals than we do, thus not putting themselves under as much pressure as we always seem to do. Thus i think with some more attacking flair in the team we'll concede even less goals away from home next season, as hopefully we'll take the upper hand in games more often.

[dww]

Agger cost £5m Ferdinand cost £30m. Pound for pound Agger is better. Ferdinand is over-rated. He suffers from cronic lapses in concentration. Agger scores goal-of-the season contenders. Ferdinand scores own goals of the highest quality.

I guess the point is though that the ability to pay for a better player might win you the league. In this case I think that is wrong but I can see the argument.

[Morph]

I'm not really sure about this. The thing is that Ferdinand is a brilliant player when he has the right partner which he does right now. the trouble is that he needs to have someone to organise him and keep him on his toes but technically he is probably the best player of the three. He is however the last of teh three I would want in my team (irelevant of the fact that he plays for United) as I like players to be able to make decisions on their own when needed and to concentrate for entire matches.

Agger IMO is nearly as good as Carvalho but younger. In the next few seasons I think he will become better. He already contibutes more than Carvalho outside the defensive third.

Seriously not trying to be funny, but isn't that agreeing with what I said, you'd take Agger over Ferdinand and you think he's nearly as good as Carvalho and given a bit more time considering his age he hopefully will be better

[Morph]

Ok, we don't finish comfortably behind chelsea and united because our players are worse, it's because...erm......oh:whatever:

Daniel Agger is NOT better than Rio Ferdinand.

what's your problem lad, why can't you have a sensible debate, seriously trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here

[dww]

Seriously not trying to be funny, but isn't that agreeing with what I said, you'd take Agger over Ferdinand and you think he's nearly as good as Carvalho and given a bit more time considering his age he hopefully will be better

I wasn't trying to disagree as such - I did say I wasn't sure. Originally the point I was going to make (but wandered off) was that Ferdinand maybe the best player for United - due to them having Vidic, even if on a one to one comparison I would rather have Agger.

[Red_Al_77]

I guess the point is though that the ability to pay for a better player might win you the league. In this case I think that is wrong but I can see the argument.

More often than not a higher transfer fee indicates a better player. The exception recently has been some of Chelsea's signings. In the case in point Agger brings more value for money and in my opinion is a much better player. The only defender in the PL who I would happily replace Agger with is John Terry.

[Morph]

I wasn't trying to disagree as such - I did say I wasn't sure. Originally the point I was going to make (but wandered off) was that Ferdinand maybe the best player for United - due to them having Vidic, even if on a one to one comparison I would rather have Agger.

this links to my point before as well about why you can't compare players from different teams and say who would get in who's. Each player is more suited to their own teams tactics, so while I don't think any of the mancs back 5 would get into our first choice line up i'm sure many mancs would the same of ours

[LFD]

The league is blessed with top centre defenders really - Carragher, Ferdinand, Terry, Carvalho, Toure, Gallas, King, Richards, Agger, Vidic and more.

All of the above are top defenders in my opinion.

[dww]

this links to my point before as well about why you can't compare players from different teams and say who would get in who's. Each player is more suited to their own teams tactics, so while I don't think any of the mancs back 5 would get into our first choice line up i'm sure many mancs would the same of ours

[tomasjj]

who are the three u would play behind the striker and who is the lone front man in this formation ?

I guess Kuyt, Crouch or Torres, if we get him could play up front.
The 3 Attacking mids - anyone out of Garcia, Gerrard, Kewell and the new winger we presumably get.

[tomasjj]

More often than not a higher transfer fee indicates a better player. The exception recently has been some of Chelsea's signings. In the case in point Agger brings more value for money and in my opinion is a much better player. The only defender in the PL who I would happily replace Agger with is John Terry.

What about Kolo Toure or Gallas?
They are both class, but Agger might improve and reach their level or above with time.

[dww]

I guess Kuyt, Crouch or Torres, if we get him could play up front.
The 3 Attacking mids - anyone out of Garcia, Gerrard, Kewell and the new winger we presumably get.

I suspect Rafa would always pick Kuyt. His awareness is very good and he has been the one picked in big games to play a similar role - i.e. against United and Milan last season. If we the 3 behind all presented a goal threat then I think it would work as Kuyt works very selflessly aswell as being good at feeding other players.

[zinedine cheyrou]

I guess Kuyt, Crouch or Torres, if we get him could play up front.
The 3 Attacking mids - anyone out of Garcia, Gerrard, Kewell and the new winger we presumably get.

i am not convinced either dirk or crouch can play the role of lone striker proficiently enough to make us a serious threat week in week out. Torres obviously has done for a lot of his AM career but I feel to get the best out of him he would benefit from playing alongside Kuyt.

As for the attacking three, I feel sadly that Luis could be on his way and I am not sure we can count on Harry (although I hope he proves me wrong) so that means we would have pennant and stevie to play in the attacking three.

Pure speculation on my part but I see Rafa sticking to a 4-4-2 regime next season...