The paper that cannot be mentioned

[Rigadon]

I just wish people would disagree with others in a less aggressive manner. It's one thing disagreeing and it's another being abusive to someone. We had this debate before and I remember someone saying something similar to what Fredo did and RS4 did a really good post which wasn't in the slightest bit abusive but explained all about the strength of feeling against the Sun etc and how anyone who was at Hillsborough (which he was) feels about it now. Why couldn't people follow RS4's lead? He was there so if anyone understands he does, yet he didn't start abusing other posters that didn't.

Do people believe that being abusive is the way to educate someone? If they do then they are clearly lacking in intelligence. I genuinely don't believe that Fredo fully understands the hatred by Liverpool fans and Scousers towards The Sun. The same way he couldn't comprehend that there would be any trouble between Liverpool and Man Utd fans had they got to the final in Athens. In a way, how can he? He doesn't even live in this country never mind in Liverpool so how can he fully understand the hatred between Scousers and Mancs?

Anyone who was abusive towards him in that thread should be ashamed of themselves in my opinion. Disagree with someone fine but as soon as you start being abusive towards someone your argument just falls flat and people stop listening!

Good post

[AFII]

I was lucky, or unlucky, to read about the "truth" from that **** paper in Sweden but that was only because I worked in a library back then because they had some english newspapers like for exampe *** ****.

That was the last time I read anything from that **** paper: I don't visit their website either.

That's how far my boycott go. If the families said that we should boycott Sky, then I would do that to, to support them.

I will let them decide what I should boycott because they are the ones that will have to live with it for the rest of their lives.

Of course every Liverpool supporter will be sad and upset when someone talk about Hillsborough but all they can do is to support the families that was affected that sad day. I try to tell everyone about the boycott, not only Liverpool supporters, that's my way to support the families.

Everytime we sing YNWA we show our support to the affected families.

[murder_inc]

I think we should set up a forum with articles about what happened so everyone will know the truth. It should also be available to guests and not only members.

By that way everyone will have a chance to read about what happened.

i actually think that isnt a bad idea. You could put links up to websites that are better informed and encourage mature, adult conversations to the not so well informed fans from other countries and to younger fans who may not no about the boycott. Contary to popular belief, I do think there is fans from maybe London or other parts of the country whose parents may support the likes of the Arse or Fulham and wont be as informed as us who either remember Hillsborough or whose parents have bred into the kids what happened and what that rag said.
Can the mods look into this and see if it is feesable and monitored properly?

[MrMichael]

I just wish people would disagree with others in a less aggressive manner. It's one thing disagreeing and it's another being abusive to someone. We had this debate before and I remember someone saying something similar to what Fredo did and RS4 did a really good post which wasn't in the slightest bit abusive but explained all about the strength of feeling against the Sun etc and how anyone who was at Hillsborough (which he was) feels about it now. Why couldn't people follow RS4's lead? He was there so if anyone understands he does, yet he didn't start abusing other posters that didn't.

Do people believe that being abusive is the way to educate someone? If they do then they are clearly lacking in intelligence. I genuinely don't believe that Fredo fully understands the hatred by Liverpool fans and Scousers towards The Sun. The same way he couldn't comprehend that there would be any trouble between Liverpool and Man Utd fans had they got to the final in Athens. In a way, how can he? He doesn't even live in this country never mind in Liverpool so how can he fully understand the hatred between Scousers and Mancs?

Anyone who was abusive towards him in that thread should be ashamed of themselves in my opinion. Disagree with someone fine but as soon as you start being abusive towards someone your argument just falls flat and people stop listening!

Brilliant post RedHot

i actually think that isnt a bad idea. You could put links up to websites that are better informed and encourage mature, adult conversations to the not so well informed fans from other countries and to younger fans who may not no about the boycott. Contary to popular belief, I do think there is fans from maybe London or other parts of the country whose parents may support the likes of the Arse or Fulham and wont be as informed as us who either remember Hillsborough or whose parents have bred into the kids what happened and what that rag said.
Can the mods look into this and see if it is feesable and monitored properly?

Hmmm. I think there's a good argument that we have ebough forums and sections already, and that the HJC link at the top covers some of it.

However, thinking out loud. perhaps if someone wanted to write an article about it, someone who was actually there like RS4 would be ideal, it could be stickied in the articles forum and maybe have a permanent prominent home once the new frontpage/portal is eventually sorted......

[Helios Creed]

It was me who jumped down his throat and i will be ****ed if i take it back. He knew the ramifications of saying its time we moved on.
He is a stalwart of est was a stalwart of koptalk and this topic has been debated many many times, so i for one dont share your sentiment that he never knew any better. All said and done, i hope Fredo doesn't leave cos i happen to like him.

Did he mean move on in the thread or move on generally? He did say he supported the feeling against the paper. I don't know.

I've had some terrible misunderstandings on here, often people taking things totally the wrong way, so it's a good idea to check before shooting.

[Iceman]

I was there, I could write an article and try to keep it factual, (ie not let my emotions run away with me)........... the trouble is, and it probably applies to everyone that was there, and many others who were affected directly or indirectly, I find it difficult to talk about it let alone put it in print, but maybe it could be theraputic.

I was one of them that was let in through the gate that was never opened, but I can remember everything as if it was yesterday

if you give me 3 or 4 days I can certainly come up with something

if its a load of bollox just bin it

[Revo]

Did he mean move on in the thread or move on generally? He did say he supported the feeling against the paper. I don't know.

I've had some terrible misunderstandings on here, often people taking things totally the wrong way, so it's a good idea to check before shooting.

draw your own conclusions, the previous thread "saturday papers" is locked.

[MrMichael]

I was there, I could write an article and try to keep it factual, (ie not let my emotions run away with me)........... the trouble is, and it probably applies to everyone that was there, and many others who were affected directly or indirectly, I find it difficult to talk about it let alone put it in print, but maybe it could be theraputic.

I was one of them that was let in through the gate that was never opened, but I can remember everything as if it was yesterday

if you give me 3 or 4 days I can certainly come up with something

if its a load of bollox just bin it

Iceman, with that perspective on it if you feel you are able to it could never be a load of bollox mate. Harrowing though it might be, I think the real stories of that day should be repeated for others. We must all never forget.



If anyone else was at all willing to share their account the same would go for them too. Permissions are limited in the articles forum so just contact me by pm and we'll sort something. If several pieces are forthcoming they could all perhaps be put together in a thread, which possibly should be otherwise closed, and form a permanent on site reminder/tribute. Or whatever, but I'm very much in favour of us taking this idea forward in some fashion.

The 96

[Neil Young]

time to move on is a direct quote when they tried to apologise. im not debating this any further. you have my thoughts

I didn't realise the same phrase was used in their "apology". I can see that compounds the mistake although I don't know whether Fredo was aware of it and making a deliberate reference or whether it was just a coincidence.

[Neil Young]

NEIL WHATS WITH THE CHEAP SHOT

It was actually meant as a compliment meaning there is no-one else like you. I suppose I did choose an ambiguous word deliberately but it really wasn't meant to be disrespectful at all, indeed, as I say, quite the opposite..

[Dero]

Can other overseas people like me just briefly mention how they know about the boycott as i think it would be helpful to know in order to educate more people. Me personally i can't remember how i know i just sort of did, i would have been a 10-11 year old living in Australia at the time. Perhaps the response to the headlines we mentioned on the news or something(can anyone confirm this?).

[Red_Al_77]

It is an emotive subject that obviously is extremely sensitive to the people of Liverpool and those that attended the match. As such those that pass comments about it should expect a negative reaction. Common sense dictates that there are some subjects you just let go. Fredo is not going to change so many years of hatred so why even go there. I watched the match live on TV and was certainly old enough to remember everything in the media after so for my part I just avoid the subject. Is it sticking one's head in the sand? No really. It's just a common sense position. If you are a Liverpool fan then in reality you should know your history. That means knowing about the 96 and the issues surrounding Hillsborough. I'll excuse children but anyone of an adult age should really be aware. There is no excuse for such ignorance.

[Helios Creed]

draw your own conclusions, the previous thread "saturday papers" is locked.

No, I think you're probably right about what he meant. But I think there was a bit of an over reaction and it was a chance to explain it to him and to anyone else who does not fully understand the boycott, because of their age, location, whatever. Like you said, having been on KT and here, he should have known better, but obviously didn't and his comments were not malicious or designed to wind anyone up, so did not merit that reaction.

His point about why the ban continues, even if everyone involved has left is a valid one and is one that needs explaining to those who are not fully aware of the background. Again I don't think his choice of words was malicious and he certainly didn't intend to provoke the response he got. It kind of proves that he didn't fully understand the topic despite being on KT etc.

[Deadlogic]

To the people who say the this "Fredo" should've have been given the time/chance to explain/defend himself - just exactly how long did he need exactly?

The way it seemed to happen, was - after making his initial comment and getting pulled on it, he simply chose to "spit his dummy out" instead of even attempting to justify what he said.

For that alone (especially because of the subject matter), he deserved the vitriol that was directed at him. You simply can't talk about this subject and then act like a child when you realise you've ****ed up.

The HJC campaign is something that EVERY person who calls him/herself a Liverpool FC fan SHOULD be aware of.

No excuses.

If someone isn't aware of what one of the most significant days in LFC history is all about, then they all they need to do is ask - or better still, follow the links provided on ANY of the reputable Liverpool websites.

[Red_hot]

To the people who say the this "Fredo" should've have been given the time/chance to explain/defend himself - just exactly how long did he need exactly?

The way it seemed to happen, was - after making his initial comment and getting pulled on it, he simply chose to "spit his dummy out" instead of even attempting to justify what he said.

For that alone (especially because of the subject matter), he deserved the vitriol that was directed at him. You simply can't talk about this subject and then act like a child when you realise you've ****ed up.

The HJC campaign is something that EVERY person who calls him/herself a Liverpool FC fan SHOULD be aware of.

No excuses.

If someone isn't aware of what one of the most significant days in LFC history is all about, then they all they need to do is ask - or better still, follow the links provided on ANY of the reputable Liverpool websites.

I wouldn't say that fredo isn't aware of HJC. I just don't think he understands fully the depth of feeling towards The Sun and as I said before how could he really when he lives on the other side of world and isn't even English??