Does Rafa have any excuse not to...

[tomasjj]

If we are going to do the numbers game, we have to look at goals conceded too, although I do think we have been scoring way to few goals the last years.

[AFII]

It's more important to have a strong attack than a strong defense because you will get three points for a win and one for a draw. You will need to score to get the three points.

In a few games last season we concentrated to much on our defending and forgot the attacking part. Rafa must get the right balance between defense and attack if we will have any chance to win the league.

[kurtangle01]

It's more important to have a strong attack than a strong defense because you will get three points for a win and one for a draw. You will need to score to get the three points.

In a few games last season we concentrated to much on our defending and forgot the attacking part. Rafa must get the right balance between defense and attack if we will have any chance to win the league.

I agree but there's no point scoring 2 if you concede 3.

[mersey86]

You're being intentionally picky here i fear.

As you are being intentionally negative. Fair enough, the forum needs a good balance, but just as the blindly optimistic can grate, even more annoying is when people seem determined to be negative. Just my viewpoint.

[JCase]

We won't win the title in the next 2 seasons. I am expecting the gap between the winners and ourselves to be no more than 9-10 pts. We need to to challenge right up to Apr / May. First 10 games in the season is key, hope we can accumulate 22-23 pts out of 30.

[CMK]

IMHO we would have to beat the chavs, the mancs and the gunners at Anfield and get at least a draw on these away games, then we would be able to mount a serious challenge on the title.

[bigfooty]

There has to be visible progress in the league this season. If there is not then Rafa should go at the end of the campaign because otherwise we're just flushing money down the bog.

[Morph]

Come the end of the season it will be much harder to protect the over-hyped Spaniard.

why would you refer to your own clubs manager as overhyped? I've not seen him overhyped anywhere really.

I mean so far in 3 years he's won us the FA cup, Champions league, took us to finals of the league cup and Champions league again, also he's won la liga twice and the uefa cup with Valencia. He's broken the big 3 that was spoken of before he arrived, and now it's time to break the big 2.

He's had practically an entire squad to rebuild, on a small budget when compared to the teams he's trying to catch, and now we look like we might just be getting there. As long as we improve this season and continue to do so in future seasons, then I see no reason we need to move Rafa on, we can't expect all of the new signings to settle straight away, but hopefully the rest of the squad can carry this and keep us in a good position.

[Reds08]

why would you refer to your own clubs manager as overhyped? I've not seen him overhyped anywhere really.

I mean so far in 3 years he's won us the FA cup, Champions league, took us to finals of the league cup and Champions league again, also he's won la liga twice and the uefa cup with Valencia. He's broken the big 3 that was spoken of before he arrived, and now it's time to break the big 2.

He's had practically an entire squad to rebuild, on a small budget when compared to the teams he's trying to catch, and now we look like we might just be getting there. As long as we improve this season and continue to do so in future seasons, then I see no reason we need to move Rafa on, we can't expect all of the new signings to settle straight away, but hopefully the rest of the squad can carry this and keep us in a good position.

It's my prediction that the genuine challenge we all want to see is not going to materialise again. The consistency of United and Chelsea is something that we won't be able to match. I think there may be a decision to be made at the end of the season. Again, I stress, this is merely what I think will happen.

NB- over-hyped not the right phrase, admitedly.

[Reds08]

We won't win the title in the next 2 seasons. I am expecting the gap between the winners and ourselves to be no more than 9-10 pts. We need to to challenge right up to Apr / May. First 10 games in the season is key, hope we can accumulate 22-23 pts out of 30.

I think this guys being negative, somebody attack him, this is NOT allowed.

[Morph]

It's my prediction that the genuine challenge we all want to see is not going to materialise again. The consistency of United and Chelsea is something that we won't be able to match. I think there may be a decision to be made at the end of the season. Again, I stress, this is merely what I think will happen.

NB- over-hyped not the right phrase, admitedly.

To be honest mate i doubt there's many who would agree with you, even if we didn't challenge this season, i still think he'd be given another year to get it right.

Thing is I can't possibly see us not getting a fair bit closer:

We'll have Mascher for the whole season, hopefully a fit sissoko, Kewell, Aurelio, new players who are better than the ones we shipped out - Torres>Bellamy, Voronin>Fowler, Babel>Zenden, Benayoun maybe better than Garcia, hopefully Carson will prove better than Dudek, Lucas coming in as well, and maybe a few more yet to come.

The likes of Kuyt, Pennant, Agger in their second season can hopefully only get better, I'd be astonished if all that isn't worth another 10-15 points

[lfcruleus]

why would you refer to your own clubs manager as overhyped? I've not seen him overhyped anywhere really.

I mean so far in 3 years he's won us the FA cup, Champions league, took us to finals of the league cup and Champions league again, also he's won la liga twice and the uefa cup with Valencia. He's broken the big 3 that was spoken of before he arrived, and now it's time to break the big 2.

He's had practically an entire squad to rebuild, on a small budget when compared to the teams he's trying to catch, and now we look like we might just be getting there. As long as we improve this season and continue to do so in future seasons, then I see no reason we need to move Rafa on, we can't expect all of the new signings to settle straight away, but hopefully the rest of the squad can carry this and keep us in a good position.

Very sensible post that Morph, puts things into perspective, I wonder how many first teamers on Aug 11th will have been here before him, Im betting 3 only.
I will be happy this year with progression in the league, second would be nice, or part of a three horse race. I honestly dont care if we get knocked out of all the cups early even the CL, if we can genuinely create a bit of excitement in the league.

[Reds08]

To be honest mate i doubt there's many who would agree with you, even if we didn't challenge this season, i still think he'd be given another year to get it right.

Thing is I can't possibly see us not getting a fair bit closer:

We'll have Mascher for the whole season, hopefully a fit sissoko, Kewell, Aurelio, new players who are better than the ones we shipped out - Torres>Bellamy, Voronin>Fowler, Babel>Zenden, Benayoun maybe better than Garcia, hopefully Carson will prove better than Dudek, Lucas coming in as well, and maybe a few more yet to come.

The likes of Kuyt, Pennant, Agger in their second season can hopefully only get better, I'd be astonished if all that isn't worth another 10-15 points

10-15 points is a big call, that would be league winning.

It's about more than just the players. Can Rafa stop his tinkering is the big issue? Both Chelsea and United had fairly consistent teams last year, big players played when they were fit. Probably cost them in Europe, but I am not so sure Rafa is willing to do that.

[Morph]

10-15 points is a big call, that would be league winning.

It's about more than just the players. Can Rafa stop his tinkering is the big issue? Both Chelsea and United had fairly consistent teams last year, big players played when they were fit. Probably cost them in Europe, but I am not so sure Rafa is willing to do that.

Well depends on our form, going by last season 15 extra points would only see us hit second place, 10 points would see us challenge till around late march, although we didn't exactly field our first team in the last 3 games of the season so they might have been worth an extra 5 or so points.

Going by the form from the season before well certainly 10 points or more would be title winning, and i'm hoping if we can play a bit more like the 05/06 season then we'll be right up there.

As for the tinkering, no I don't think he'll stop but the key is that the players he'll be bringing in will be of a greater quality and thus we wont suffer. We don't really have any players now that you'll groan at when you see their name on the team sheet (not counting new signings obviously). Red nose tinkered just as much as rafa last season, but he relied heavily on Ronaldo last season. That's not rafa's style he likes the responsibility shared around, so in theory eventually we should see the benefit of this

[redblood]

Point out what is wrong with what I have said then. If I had told you that if when our new manager came in in 2004, 4 years later we had not looked like coming close to winning the league, you would want to know what the **** was going on. That is the reality we are faced with if we don't challenge this year. You are obviously happy for such mediocre league form to continue, many on here would disagree. I am speaking hypothetically of course, but i think the vast majority would agree with the basis of what I have said.

Well I think you're completely wrong, what you have said is that Rafa has had the money, he now has the players, just now mind you in the last couple of weeks. FFS
We have finished within a point of UTD in his 2nd season with a record breaking run in the league and a record points total finish, 1 CL Cup 1 FA Cup another CL fina,l a league cup Final
Last year was a dissapointment in the league nobody can say otherwise.
But you have a blinkered narrow minded view and are not prepared to listen to logical and reasonable arguments because myself and many others on here have tried quite a few times.
I for one can see overall progress and I'm prepared to give our manager plenty of time with his own players which he now has a lot of.
He inherited a ****e squad and didn't get enough money to change it as dramatically and quickly as we all would've liked.
There are plenty of other arguments I could present but I know I would be wasting my time with you.