Our chances for the title

[Hooz]

There is nothing quite clear about it, last year was a blip due to many new players not fitting in and also a lot of our old players not performing to their levels.
If you take our form in 05/06 and we can and should be able to replicate and improve on that because we have improved our first team and squad.
The Mancs may have bought big but there are no guarantees those players will settle in also Giggs and Scholes are unlikely to reproduce the form they showed last year, don't get me wrong they'll still be in with a shout, but last year they were particurlarly lucky.
As for the Chavs they'll be strong and you would expect Sheva to perform a little better this season but they will be missing Drogba and Essien for a large and important part of the league.
Then we have to look at a couple of key factors for us, last year our big players never stepped up and we were very unlucky in a lot of games where we dominated but got beat instead of winning,Chelski away Blackburn away Mancs home to name but a few.
Added to that we really took our foot off the gas in the last 3 or 4 league games which made the points total look worse than what it should have been.
It's only the start of August don't dare write us off without having kicked a ball in anger yet. We are in with a shout as much as the Manc the Chavs and the Arse and it will only not be possible when the maths won't allow it.

I can appreciate alot of that.

But your point about us dominating games and failing to win is not a positive thing. We simply aren't good enough going forward to win the league.

The spine of our side is very good, good enough in fact, but we still lack that cutting edge.

We threw too many points away last season by failing to win games that we controlled, and I don't think we've signed good enough players this summer to remedy that. If we signed a top, top class winger or a striker who takes his chances then maybe I'll reconsider, until then, I expect us to finish 3rd.

[fred_plasticine]

Of course it's bad luck they score from one chance which is freakish in itself.
As for us some of our chances are down to bad finishing some down to bad luck so I wouldn't they are simply wasted.

sorry mate but it's not! it's called clinical finishing and that's why chelsea and united are ahead of us.
for example we lost to the chavs due to a brilliant goal and due to the fact that we bottled it in front of goal. if you put it down to bad luck so be it but i hope rafa doesn't otherwise we'll never win the league.

[Big Dave]

I can appreciate alot of that.

But your point about us dominating games and failing to win is not a positive thing. We simply aren't good enough going forward to win the league.

The spine of our side is very good, good enough in fact, but we still lack that cutting edge.

We threw too many points away last season by failing to win games that we controlled, and I don't think we've signed good enough players this summer to remedy that. If we signed a top, top class winger or a striker who takes his chances then maybe I'll reconsider, until then, I expect us to finish 3rd.

Would you not consider Torres to be a top top class striker?

[Hooz]

Top, top class was referring to a winger.

Torres is very good. But he is not a great goal-scorer.

[Shaggy]

Top, top class was referring to a winger.

Torres is very good. But he is not a great goal-scorer.

Nor was Alan Shearer at the same age.

[Hooz]

Nor was Alan Shearer at the same age.

Well, we'll have to wait and see. But I won't hold my breath.

[Big Dave]

Top, top class was referring to a winger.

Torres is very good. But he is not a great goal-scorer.

I'm sure I read on here somewhere that there was a stat to show that Torres has only been outscored in the last 4 La Liga seasons by 4 players. Considering he plays in an average team, thats pretty good going.

Regarding the winger situation.............I don't really see that any of the other top 5 teams have a top top winger either.

Chelsea don't play with wingers, neither do Arsenal. Tottenham have Lennon and Man Utd have Ronaldo. So I think it's quite possible that we have enough strength in the wide positions to challenge these teams, and dare I say it, enough strength in depth to vary our tactics to negate the necessity for these wingers.

[Big Dave]

Well, we'll have to wait and see. But I won't hold my breath.

So given the same budget as Rafa this summer, who would you have bought to play on the wing and up front for us?

[redblood]

I can appreciate alot of that.

But your point about us dominating games and failing to win is not a positive thing. We simply aren't good enough going forward to win the league.

The spine of our side is very good, good enough in fact, but we still lack that cutting edge.

We threw too many points away last season by failing to win games that we controlled, and I don't think we've signed good enough players this summer to remedy that. If we signed a top, top class winger or a striker who takes his chances then maybe I'll reconsider, until then, I expect us to finish 3rd.

Ok fair enough points mate but Kuyt has a season under his belt Pennant has come on in leaps and bounds (still needs to find top top level), Stevie couldn't hit the broad side of a barn last year. Kewell is back and looking fairly fit.
As discussed elsewhere Crouch has made massive strides(pun intended) and should continue to do so.
Add to that the ability of Torres and the surprise package that Voronin has looked so far.
With Benni and Babel to offer something different also I think we are in a much better position to challenge.
Even if Stevie and Xabi just get back to the level we know they can perform to that will be a massive boost.

[Hooz]

Well, either or really.

As I see it, we're falling short because we are not able to create chances, especially when some of the weaker sides are 100% focused on defence against us, and we miss too many of the chances we do get.

Ideally we could address both problems but whether we don't have enough money left or Benitez thinks we're sorted, we won't sort both of them out this window. If we filled either of those roles that I've mentioned we could reasonably challenge.

Your point about Torres; well look at his record, he is not a goal-scorer in the vein of Fowler etc. Maybe he'll become one but I don't think it's that likely.

And when I say wingers, I'm referring to wide midfielders rather than just the sort of wide forwards Chelsea use to play with. Chelsea, United and Arsenal all have FAR better wide midfielders.

[redblood]

sorry mate but it's not! it's called clinical finishing and that's why chelsea and united are ahead of us.
for example we lost to the chavs due to a brilliant goal and due to the fact that we bottled it in front of goal. if you put it down to bad luck so be it but i hope rafa doesn't otherwise we'll never win the league.

If thats the case then I would be really disappointed if every chance United and Chelski and Arse and Barca and Real get that they don't put them away. Sorry mate if every top team had a 100% conversion rate then we would see some amazing score lines.
We missed chances were unlucky with some but when it happens that the opposition then only get one chance and bury it and this happens on a number of occassions that has a serious element of bad luck.
Also by that rationale you would say Blackburn are clinical.

I accept that our finishing needs to improve but along with that you need luck. Last year in the league we had little or none

[Mattshark]

Well, we'll have to wait and see. But I won't hold my breath.

Pessimistic arn't we.

[Hooz]

Pessimistic arn't we.

Realistic.

[Mattshark]

Realistic.

No, it is pessimism. All pessimist claim there just being realistic.

[paulcooper4]

Realistic.

Realistically, you are a ****