The way Kuyt took his two goals...

[dww]

The great thing is he knows it. He's not deluding himself as many footballers would and saying "well I scored two, aren't I great!". You could see from his reactions throughout the game that he knew he had to do better - same with Crouch when he missed those two headers. It all bodes well.

It has been a real feature of the players that Rafa has kept faith in that attitude - Crouch, Kuyt and Pennant have all shown it at times.

The competition for places allied to the fact that players seem to feel Rafa will give them a chance if they deserve it is now reaping it's rewards. Hopefully We will see Kuyt, Crouch and Babel all step up their games to the level we need in the long run because of it.

[Dhav]

Nic, I don't think you're a bad lad, but you have to expect reactions like these if you go round calling people like Kuyt a disgrace when he is far from it.

It's completely uncalled for, well below the belt, and is not even anywhere near being accurate.

[Redlife]

Kuyt's a player who gives his all. I also think he has more ability than a lot of the keyboard warriors around here give him credit for. He scored two last night, and afterwards said it wasn't good enough, that he should have had 3 or 4. Now that's the correct mentality.


The knee-jerk reactions on internet forums are wonderful ....He's great, he's ****, Xabi's terrible, Crouch is "dog ****" (to quote a true Red internet legend :whatever, I've haven't seen Voronin play but he's ****, Stevie G's not all that, ok we're winning our matches but Kuyt's ****...


Please. At the end of the season we'll know a lot more about Kuyt's worth. Chill.

[anfieldanfield]

16 goals in 51 games isn't enough.

That said, you cant help but admire everything Hard Work Dirk brings to the team when he plays.

It's going to be Torres+1 for the rest of the season and I genuinely think it's very even between our other three strikers.

[Nic83]

16 goals in 51 games isn't enough.

That said, you cant help but admire everything Hard Work Dirk brings to the team when he plays.

It's going to be Torres+1 for the rest of the season and I genuinely think it's very even between our other three strikers.

I'd agree with that but Crouchy gets the nod for me as no. 2.

[Pablo]

We've already scored a few tasty goals this season havent we? Kuyts 1st was a lovely move yesterday. We had Gerrard's free kick, Voronins long range strike, Torres goalscoring masterclass, and Voronin's sweeping counter attack goal the other day!

[Dhav]

16 goals in 51 games isn't enough.

That said, you cant help but admire everything Hard Work Dirk brings to the team when he plays.

It's going to be Torres+1 for the rest of the season and I genuinely think it's very even between our other three strikers.

I tend to agree with what you say. 16 goals in 51 games is a rather poor return for someone of his reputation, and he does miss his fair share of chances. Having said that I don't think he compares unfavourably with say someone like Crouch in terms of profligacy. My point is he doesn't seem to have been on the end of as many goal scoring chances as Crouch, whether that be through his own poor positional play, or as is more likely, be as a result of all his industry in deep and wide positions possibly acting on Rafa's instructions. As a result I think his goal scoring record is misleading. I mean he's hardly a goal hanger is he?

Either way, I think the only striker we have that is set apart from the rest is Torres because he can make his own chances. The others rely on service. It's up to them now to step up to the plate and fight for their place. The team can only benefit.

[Nic83]

We've already scored a few tasty goals this season havent we? Kuyts 1st was a lovely move yesterday. We had Gerrard's free kick, Voronins long range strike, Torres goalscoring masterclass, and Voronin's sweeping counter attack goal the other day!

[Pablo]

I forgot Momo's Thunderbolt!

Shame on me.

[Mattshark]

I tend to agree with what you say. 16 goals in 51 games is a rather poor return for someone of his reputation, and he does miss his fair share of chances. Having said that I don't think he compares unfavourably with say someone like Crouch in terms of profligacy. My point is he doesn't seem to have been on the end of as many goal scoring chances as Crouch, whether that be through his own poor positional play, or as is more likely, be as a result of all his industry in deep and wide positions possibly acting on Rafa's instructions. As a result I think his goal scoring record is misleading. I mean he's hardly a goal hanger is he?

Either way, I think the only striker we have that is set apart from the rest is Torres because he can make his own chances. The others rely on service. It's up to them now to step up to the plate and fight for their place. The team can only benefit.

His scoring record in the league however looks far better. Considering he has only had 1 season in English football, it isn't that bad.

[fred_plasticine]

it's true that he doesn't get on the end of too many chances. that said he's not clinical either which is obviously not the best combination, is it?

[anfieldanfield]

I tend to agree with what you say. 16 goals in 51 games is a rather poor return for someone of his reputation, and he does miss his fair share of chances. Having said that I don't think he compares unfavourably with say someone like Crouch in terms of profligacy. My point is he doesn't seem to have been on the end of as many goal scoring chances as Crouch, whether that be through his own poor positional play, or as is more likely, be as a result of all his industry in deep and wide positions possibly acting on Rafa's instructions. As a result I think his goal scoring record is misleading. I mean he's hardly a goal hanger is he?

Either way, I think the only striker we have that is set apart from the rest is Torres because he can make his own chances. The others rely on service. It's up to them now to step up to the plate and fight for their place. The team can only benefit.

Fair shout...

On the spot then, who would you pick to partner Torres on Saturday ?

[Dhav]

His scoring record in the league however looks far better. Considering he has only had 1 season in English football, it isn't that bad.

Indeed. 12 League goals is not a bad return at all for your first season in English football.

If you consider that Kuyt's only goal in the CL last season was in the final, while 7 out of Crouch's 18 goals were in Europe, I'm getting an idea here ....

Fair shout...

On the spot then, who would you pick to partner Torres on Saturday ?

Are you asking what should the first choice partnership be or what should the partnership be for this particular game (considering we should win regardless)?

I'm assuming you're asking the former.

Personally I'd go for Voronin in the away games. He showed good positional sense, movement and speed of thought against Sunderland. You can see him getting in the right positions, on the end of quick breaks etc. He looks to be faster than Kuyt and Crouch and so I think he could be more capable than themof keeping up with some of the quick break-away moves we saw at Sunderland . He seems a decent option for the away games. With Babel, Gerrard, Pennant, Torres etc, I see no reason why we can't launch devestating counter-attacks in the way Man U and Arsenal have in the last couple of years.

At home, it's take your pick between Kuyt and Crouch for me. Like you said yourself, there's very little between them. Can't recall Kuyt or Crouch for that matter getting many away goals last season; given their lack of pace they don't seem particularly suited to the counter-attacking game. I do think they can do a good job at keeping and distributing the ball and linking up the play though. They generally seem better suited to playing when we have the bulk of the possession. I think it suits them more when we play the patient, possession game with the slow build ups. So personally I'd go for either of these at home. May be Crouch for the European games and Kuyt for the domestic ones.

[cannotmakeit]

What this bloke said.....

SINGING THE PRAISES OF THE UNSUNG
Paul Tomkins 29 August 2007

We know the identities of those players who win the most plaudits. And almost always it's deservedly so. Such reputations are earned.

Fernando Torres is the latest player heading for that category. But not every player gets his due recognition.

Of course, some players get called an unsung hero so many times they can no longer be considered unappreciated. Steve Finnan is one such player. No sane Liverpool fan underrates him now, although he doesn't always receive his due recognition from outside the club.

Jamie Carragher is perhaps the epitome of unsung-becomes-much-vaunted. So no player is consigned to the category for life.

Part of the problem in appreciating a player is that many people seem to get obsessed with what he can't do, rather than what he can.

Maybe even Torres will suffer this. You know the kind of thing: he doesn't score goals as frequently as so-and-so.

At present, Torres has played three league games: two fairly tricky away fixtures and one very tricky home one. His goal ratio is currently one in three. But he has played a massive part in the winning of both away games, and his goal was likely to prove the winner against Chelsea until the referee intervened.

He was also heavily involved in goals at Villa Park and the Stadium of Light, and but for inspired keeping, might have five or six strikes to his name now.

I'm a big proponent of stats, when used sensibly. But there is something statistically immeasurable about what Fernando Torres does to a defence during 90 minutes. He may miss chances, but the team will score lots of goals because of his superb all-round play. He creates openings for others in so many different ways, both directly and indirectly.

For a flair player he works phenomenally hard. So not only does he give centre-backs no time to rest when they're on the ball, he also runs them ragged when it's at his feet or when he's running off the ball. After 60 minutes those centre-backs must be close to nervous breakdowns.

It might not win him as many headlines, so it is the unsung part of his game: the wearing down of the opposition.

But how do you measure the stress and strain a defence feels with statistics? You can't. You need heart-rate monitors and cortisol tests. You need to check for new grey hairs after the final whistle, and look for hardened man-markers curled up in the corner of the changing room, crying for their mummies.

If you force a mistake from a defender, embarrass him with a piece of skill or blitz him with a burst of pace, even if you don't score you've affected his confidence. Do it continually, and he'll unravel. The moment against Sunderland when Torres burst between the Nosworthy and McShane will have given them nightmares. It was frighteningly direct.

So when Torres received the ball from Babel in the 87th minute, they will have had no idea what he was going to do with it; particularly if they'd also watched what Torres did to Ben-Haim a week earlier. While Torres had the vision and ability to calmly stroke a perfectly-weighted pass into Voronin's path for the second goal, by then it was against tired and tormented defenders who dare not get too close to the Spaniard for fear of further embarrassment.

Another problem is comparing players with those they shouldn't be expected to match up to. It depends where you set the benchmark. While it should be high for any Liverpool player, you have to look at what they do for the team, not just their eye-catching individual moments.

If you compare Dirk Kuyt with Marco van Basten, then like most mere mortals the Liverpool man will suffer. Of course, that doesn't mean you should go to the other end of the spectrum and compare him with Marco Boogers. But Dirk Kuyt offers his own unique qualities that should be appreciated. He's a 'modern' footballer, and while some people will use that as a criticism, I see it only as a plaudit.

Last year he didn't score in the Champions League until the very last minute of the final, but his selfless performances, particularly against Barcelona and Chelsea, were crucial in progressing. He helped win those games.

His role in Torres' goal against Chelsea sums up why I admire him so much. The ball was in the air in the centre circle in Liverpool's half, and Kuyt ran back and jumped with more conviction against the much taller Obi Mikel, and won the ball for the Reds. Had he not, Liverpool would have been under the cosh.

But from there Alonso headed to Gerrard, and suddenly a lightning break was underway.

But apart from Kuyt's involvement there, I loved the way he burst forward to support his strike partner. A lot of other hardworking strikers would have seen their involvement in the move as over –– watching with admiration as the ball disappeared upfield –– but not Kuyt, and that's why I think he has the right instincts.

Not only had Torres got a 30-yard head-start on Kuyt when Gerrard's pass was released, but Kuyt doesn't have the Spaniard's pace. However, at the exact moment Torres struck the ball towards goal, with four Chelsea players chasing back, Kuyt arrived unmarked into the 'D' of the penalty area. Had Torres decided the angle was against him he could have rolled the ball to the penalty spot for the oncoming Dutchman to strike home. Similarly, if Cech had parried the shot, Kuyt stood a good chance of nabbing the rebound.
Two years ago Peter Crouch was something of an unsung hero. Then he found his goalscoring touch, and now people are wondering why he isn't playing. But for the first time, it seems, Benítez has four strikers he is very happy with. That said, he can't play them all, obviously.

But I'd be surprised if Crouch doesn't have a significant role to play this season. With Torres able to hold the ball up away from home, as well as burst in behind defences, it's perhaps now at Anfield where Crouch will be deployed most. If teams come to sit back, then Crouch's aerial presence will trouble them around the area. Pair him with Torres, and that's two tall strikers to feed on crosses from another unsung hero who's winning over the fans in droves: Jermaine Pennant.

Given that his arrival was low-key, and he was not a household name, Andriy Voronin seemed destined, in the eyes of a lot of fans, to fill the position of underrated squad member. But if he carries on with his quick and clever movement, deft touches, powerful shooting and hard work, he certainly won't be an unsung hero. I expected him to be a handy free transfer, but he's been far better than anticipated.

Not as overtly tricky as Luis Garcia, he appears to have his goalscoring knack, while being more consistent with his passing.

Alvaro Arbeloa is another who doesn't win many headlines, but who continues to impress. I said when he first joined that he reminded me of Rob Jones, in both his physicality and his ability to look as comfortable at left-back as on the right. He's quick, and a tenacious tackler, but he also has a lot of skill.

Momo Sissoko, hero at the weekend, is a player who sometimes splits fan opinion. To my mind he has an under-appreciated ability on the ball, and the pace and quick feet to go past people –– meaning he has the potential to become a real attacking force. His main strength is breaking up play, but when he does so he often looks to get the ball quickly upfield with a forceful run.

But until this weekend, his finishing clearly let him down. The other major criticism relates to his passing, but I've always felt a lot of it is down to him being too 'excited' from chasing and closing people down. He's 100mph without possession, and sometimes is the same with it. Again, that can be great when he's bursting forward, but at times he needs to pause for a second and take stock.

But the ability to pass is there, even if he's never going to be a ball-playing maestro like Alonso. At 22, he has so much time to mature and develop. While players can continue to improve their technique as they grow older, providing they work at their game, a bigger change can come with improvements to their decision making and composure. That comes almost naturally, with age and experience.

But Sissoko is up against some really talented players for a starting berth in the centre of midfield.

Anyone not featuring much now will get their share of chances before May. Benítez hasn't thrown in too many of the new boys for the league games, to ensure some stability and familiarity to the start. But Rafa will rest and rotate when he sees the need, and with three players breaking bones within the space of six days, injuries will present opportunities.

I wouldn't like to be the person who had to decide which players weren't even going to make the 16 on match-day, as each seems good enough. And while it will be tricky for Benítez too, it's the only way a manager would want it. It's ten times better than struggling to find those good enough to include.

I sense Benítez now has well over 20 players whom he rates and trusts. Kewell, Benayoun, Crouch, Lucas, Mascherano –– these are players in whom the manager has either shown great faith over the years, or tracked the progress of during that time. They're clearly important players to Benítez.

But it's now got to the stage that he has no obvious passengers in the squad. And that can only bode well.

[justcruisin]

how about the way kuyt missed all those sitters.natural goal scorer...oh plsssss