I like the way..

[carheex]

Pennant does not deserve stick but Xabi does?
Crazy

?? The difference is, Pennant has improved - Alonso has been getting poorer.

[Johnny]

He scored a lot of goals and Pennant can't even make an assist. That's why I can say that Cisse is better than Pennant but that isn't to difficult, our wing play isn't any good.

[AFII]

?? The difference is, Pennant has improved - Alonso has been getting poorer.

Well, Alonso still scores and assists more and he isn't an attacking player.

Pennant may have improved but he is still not good enough. If we take some of Pennants best games then that is the standard he should play week in week out and in some games even better than that. Then he will be good enough but not before then.

Our wings is still our weakness and we won't have the best midfield in the world until we get better wingers.

[sid]

Possibly but sid must be something of a newbie, so he’s not forced to have any idea who I am. I’ve certainly never encountered him on here before, although I do know he’s caused a bit of a stink in a few match threads.

Just a few!!

[JPK]

?? The difference is, Pennant has improved - Alonso has been getting poorer.

Improved from being an alright player in a relegation team.
Alonso is a world class player who set unbelievable standards and most top teams in Europe would take him.
Nobody in the top ten in England would buy Pennant.McLaren as much as he is a clown even knows he is a poor inconsistent player.

[red g]

alonso has adapted to the premiership and has changed as a player, he is still a rolls royce of a midfielder though

[JPK]

Correct. Wenger knows one way of playing and one way only. Granted, their tippy-tappy football is pretty but he’s tactically bankrupt. What, exactly, have they won over the last few years? He’s had a decade in the job and still hasn’t won a European Cup. He will not be a genuinely great manager until he wins that. Sorry, but that’s the way it is. [/QUOTE]

The greatest manager of all time Bill Shankly did'nt win that either.
What do you say to that?

[El Jefecito]

Correct. Wenger knows one way of playing and one way only. Granted, their tippy-tappy football is pretty but he’s tactically bankrupt. What, exactly, have they won over the last few years? He’s had a decade in the job and still hasn’t won a European Cup. He will not be a genuinely great manager until he wins that. Sorry, but that’s the way it is.

The greatest manager of all time Bill Shankly did'nt win that either.
What do you say to that?[/QUOTE]

I say Wenger started with a top 4 team and that Shankly started with a team in the second division. He was the one that established the foundation which allowed Paisley to win 3 euro cups.

[Neil Young]

The greatest manager of all time Bill Shankly did'nt win that either.
What do you say to that?

Perhaps, 'there is no correct answer, it's subjective'...?

[red g]

The greatest manager of all time Bill Shankly did'nt win that either.
What do you say to that?[/QUOTE]

I say Wenger started with a top 4 team and that Shankly started with a team in the second division. He was the one that established the foundation which allowed Paisley to win 3 euro cups.

case closed

[JPK]

Case closed how?The point was you are not recognised as a great manager until you win Europe.It's not my opinion.

[Shaggy]

Shanks was 40 odd years ago. Different game altogether now.

[JPK]

Shanks was 40 odd years ago. Different game altogether now.

Lame.Way more teams now but I will say it was just as tough then with the knock out and going into the unknown.

[Shaggy]

If you can't even acknowledge that the game has changed almost beyond recognition since Shanks' era, then this is a pointless exercise.

[Neil Young]

Lame.Way more teams now but I will say it was just as tough then with the knock out and going into the unknown.

No it's not lame. You just disagree.

There is no law that says all benchmarks of "greatness as a manager" (whatever the f*ck that means) need to remain immutable through time. Equally there is no law says they don't.

So basically you think Wenger is the equal of Shankly. Others don't.

Personally I think it's a pretty sterile debate now.