When will people accept it....

[Craig_H]

Icon is a girl.

So are you a poof then?

[Shaggy]

Is that what you do when you think of me?

Alright alright.....as the Americans might say - "enough already dude!"

[bigfooty]

He's not a right-mid or left-mid and it is hurting us as a team when he plays those roles. The same is true of Babel.

We should have purchased a proper wide-midfielder in the Summer, or at least one that was ready for the first team. It's what we lacked all of last season on the left and it's ridiculous that we didn't rectify the problem in the Summer with the 40M+ we had to spend.

[AFII]

He's not a right-mid or left-mid and it is hurting us as a team when he plays those roles. The same is true of Babel.

We should have purchased a proper wide-midfielder in the Summer, or at least one that was ready for the first team. It's what we lacked all of last season on the left and it's ridiculous that we didn't rectify the problem in the Summer with the 40M+ we had to spend.

Rafa tried to sign a better winger but you can't sign them if they turn you down or if the club overvalues them.

Mancini and Quaresma are two examples.

[JohnDoe]

Rafa didn't sign Benayoun as an alternative. Babel was the alternative, Benayoun was coming either way to replace Garcia.

[Johnny]

[QUOTE=AFII;701645Mancini and Quaresma[/QUOTE]Untried in the PL but qualified to suceed this yr.

[Robster007]

He's not a right-mid or left-mid and it is hurting us as a team when he plays those roles. The same is true of Babel.

We should have purchased a proper wide-midfielder in the Summer, or at least one that was ready for the first team. It's what we lacked all of last season on the left and it's ridiculous that we didn't rectify the problem in the Summer with the 40M+ we had to spend.

Spot on.

I'm sure Rafa is aware of the problem, and i'm also confident he tried to rectify it during the summer. In one way I admire the fact he refuses to be ripped off by paying over the odds. On the other hand, I just wish he'd splashed out on a superb, skillful winger.

We're getting there.

[dww]

I'm not sure we need these genuine wingers people go on about. Look at say Arsenal - they have Hleb and Rosicky in the wide positions and they seem to be doing well.

Yossi's natural position is for me coming in from out wide and he is tactically aware when Rafa demands we add width he seems to hold the position well. I think the problem this season is that we have yet to get the creative/attack starting balance right between the 3 attacking players (two wide midfielders and normally Kuyt).

I actually think that if Kuyt was a little further forward in most games then the fact he works so hard and runs down the flanks would be an ideal complement to having Babel and Benayoun (or players of their ilk). The fact is that he has played below his best all season in my opinion and this has made it harder for our other attacking players. We need to have 4 goal threats at least on the pitch and too often when I have watched Kuyt hasn't been one - I really rate him as a player but I think in current form he might be better off benched for a few games.

[bigfooty]

Perhaps, but I'm sure we could have bought such a player instead of Babel and Yossi, or Babel and Lucas, or Lucas and Yossi.

And as for signing players if a club overvalues then, there is no way Babel is worth the money we paid for him at the moment. We bought potential and paid a premium for it. Long-term it may turn out to be an extremely good purchase, but short-term it was overpaying.

Carrick is not a great player but he was the sort Man Utd needed and their success last season showed that balance is key. We do not have balance at the moment because we're playing people out of position - for example today on the left where we had Riise, Aurelio and Kuyt in the LM slot which is not the natural position for any of them.

[JohnDoe]

He's not a right-mid or left-mid and it is hurting us as a team when he plays those roles. The same is true of Babel.

We should have purchased a proper wide-midfielder in the Summer, or at least one that was ready for the first team. It's what we lacked all of last season on the left and it's ridiculous that we didn't rectify the problem in the Summer with the 40M+ we had to spend.

Not every wide midfielder has to be a touchline-hugging, ultra-crosser.

[bigfooty]

Not every wide midfielder has to be a touchline-hugging, ultra-crosser.

Maybe not, but that is what we need when we play sides that pack the middle of the pitch against us, like Pompy and Birmingham.

[dww]

Perhaps, but I'm sure we could have bought such a player instead of Babel and Yossi, or Babel and Lucas, or Lucas and Yossi.

And as for signing players if a club overvalues then, there is no way Babel is worth the money we paid for him at the moment. We bought potential and paid a premium for it. Long-term it may turn out to be an extremely good purchase, but short-term it was overpaying.

Carrick is not a great player but he was the sort Man Utd needed and their success last season showed that balance is key. We do not have balance at the moment because we're playing people out of position - for example today on the left where we had Riise, Aurelio and Kuyt in the LM slot which is not the natural position for any of them.

I'm not sure it isn't Riise's natural position to be honest but I see your point. However I think that having either him or preferably Aurelio at left back offers us a wide option which would allow us to more naturally play a wide player who cuts in on the left. I really like Arbeloa but if we play him we do need a more genuine winger in tight games IMO.

I would be interested to see a fully fit Aurelio on the left - not a natural winger but a great crosser who does stay wide. Trouble is he never seems to be fit enough to have a run in a position he may not be comfortable in.

When buying people this summer I think we had to look at who we could get in on a wage/fee basis and I think we did very well. Part of the problem has been that we changed the balance of the team, but we needed to do so to progress. I would have liked to have seen a winger capable of playing either side like say Quaresma added to the squad but the fee would have been exorbitant and would have limited our options in other necessary areas.

[JohnDoe]

Maybe not, but that is what we need when we play sides that pack the middle of the pitch against us, like Pompy and Birmingham.

What we need to do with sides who pack the middle of the pitch against us is play BETTER, not horribly under perform and be unable to string a pass together, which is what happened in those games (especially the first).

Not every result that goes against us is due to a lack of quality. A team's form shouldn't be ignored. Mancs have all the wingers you dream of yet couldn't beat Pompey away and a 10-man Reading at home? You know why? Because they played ****e, simple as.

[Robster007]

I'm not sure we need these genuine wingers people go on about. Look at say Arsenal - they have Hleb and Rosicky in the wide positions and they seem to be doing well.

Yossi's natural position is for me coming in from out wide and he is tactically aware when Rafa demands we add width he seems to hold the position well. I think the problem this season is that we have yet to get the creative/attack starting balance right between the 3 attacking players (two wide midfielders and normally Kuyt).

I actually think that if Kuyt was a little further forward in most games then the fact he works so hard and runs down the flanks would be an ideal complement to having Babel and Benayoun (or players of their ilk). The fact is that he has played below his best all season in my opinion and this has made it harder for our other attacking players. We need to have 4 goal threats at least on the pitch and too often when I have watched Kuyt hasn't been one - I really rate him as a player but I think in current form he might be better off benched for a few games.

Very good post.

The only point I would differ on is to push Kuyt up for a few games rather than bench him.

[dww]

What we need to do with sides who pack the middle of the pitch against us is play BETTER, not horribly under perform and be unable to string a pass together, which is what happened in those games (especially the first).

Not every result that goes against us is due to a lack of quality. A team's form shouldn't be ignored. Mancs have all the wingers you dream of yet couldn't beat Pompey away and a 10-man Reading at home? You know why? Because they played ****e, simple as.

I think he made a valid point about Carrick and the fact some signings add more than the individuals quality. I however think that if Babel and Benayoun add goals to our midfield over the season (as opposed to being judged over a very few games when they are settling in) then they will have done exactly that for us.