whats up with stevie?

[Kopite_Colin]

What JD is saying, is that SG is an impact player as you've pointed out. BUT he can't run the midfield and hence control the game.

Another slant, SG plays well, xabi makes others play well.

I'm not arguing that SG & XAbi don't play well together - I'm arguing NOt to take SG out of CM as was suggested earlier in the thread. Personally I prefer SG & Mascher in CM.

I wouldn't be unhappy if we went to 3-5-2 to accomodate all 3 in CM, but in order to do that we would need specific type of players (for example Alves & Aurelio / Riise?) 1 of which we don't have. Or we play 1 up top (Torres) on his own - which I absolutely loathe - and only believe in doing for extreme occasions.

[Dhav]

Alonso waits (sometimes too long) and delivers the pass smoothly ... Gerrard's gung ho too many times I'm afraid and he loses the ball to much because of that

Alonso is our maestro that pulls all the strings - only he can dictate the pace of the game; be an outlet for defenders, release wingers/ strikers early, slow the game down if necessary.

Seems to me Gerrard playing deeper is an attempt by him to replicate the Alonso role, but he just can't do it as effectively as Xabi - dare I say it but does he not have Alonso's football intelligence to be as effective in this role? Like you say, Gerrard only seems to do gung ho

[Kopite_Colin]

Alonso waits (sometimes too long) and delivers the pass smoothly ... Gerrard's gung ho too many times I'm afraid and he loses the ball to much because of that

I can't disagree with that

[Red Chilli]

All of our CM's have been **** this season and it is highlighted when they have to play so much of the game in their own half to compensate for defensive lack of pace.
Don't see what the big deal about Mascherano is, he's been no better than anyone else. His passing has been schoolboy-ish

[JohnDoe]

You and I need to agree to disagree on this one then. How many times has SG dragged our game together at crucial times from CM - there's at least3 major ones I can think of:

CL 2005 - Olympiakos
CL 2005 Final
FA CUp Final 2006


SG shouildn't be the only CMer who's gfoing to create something in the final third for us. Often the other 3 CMs we have in the suad are far too deep to influence our attacking play. That's one of our fundamental flaws in my book, given our wide areas are so weak.

When Alonso has license to go forward, he scores goals.

Funny that you mention our line up against Milan in the CL final, which looked liked this in the second half:

---------------Dudek---------------
---Carragher---Hyypia----Traore----
Smicer---Alonso----Hamann-----Riise
-----Gerrard---Baros---Garcia-------

(Gerrard swapped with Smicer and played as a right wing back after Serginho was put on). When Gerrard was in the middle alone with Alonso, we got ****ted 3-0.

And it's also funny that you mention the line up in the F.A cup final:

Reina
Finnan Carragher Hyypia Riise
Gerrard Alonso Sissoko Kewell
Cisse Crouch

Before you mention substitutions and changes, Gerrard was a central midfielder for about 5 minutes, between the taking off of Alonso and the introduction of Hamann. Throughout the match, Gerrard had two CM's behind him at all times.

[anfieldanfield]

Rest him, drop him, sell him. I dont give a **** anymore. He's a ****.

I'm sick and tired of paying to see that lazy, overated, arrogant, moody little ****** wander around the pitch with his head down.

He is nowhere near as good as he thinks he is.

[El Jefecito]

IMHO, pace is not a red herring. It's the one thing ALL defenders hate. A player driving at them with the ball can be as dangerous as a pacy accurate pass (however long), if not moreso - as it commits defenders to make a decsion to tackle or not to tackle.

Of course you need pace, except it is not important for CMers as it is for wingers and strikers.

If SG's not up to it, and we have a replacement who can play his position, then I would agree - drop him. But the fact is we don't have anyone who can play his position - despite all these Cmers at the club. Lucas MAY be able to do it in the future - but not at the moment.

We will never know until we play him, he can't do any worse than SG is doing.

And when Xabi's back, he should go straight into the side.

[Dhav]

Rest him, drop him, sell him. I dont give a **** anymore. He's a ****.

I'm sick and tired of paying to see that lazy, overated, arrogant, moody little ****** wander around the pitch with his head down.

He is nowhere near as good as he thinks he is.

Marky, have you nicked Jamo's login?

[El Jefecito]

1. All of our CM's have been **** this season and it is highlighted when they have to play so much of the game in their own half to compensate for defensive lack of pace.
Don't see what the big deal about Mascherano is, he's been no better than anyone else. His passing has been schoolboy-ish

1. BS, all have had good games, just SG less than any of the others.
2. It's not because of defensive pace, it's because we have not been able to retain the ball and the opposition are running at us.

[Imy]

His recent performances just show you why Rafa has played on the right so often.

He does not control matches, too often he is nowhere near being the midfielder who supports strikers or the midfielder picking up helping tackle back.

We need a Playmaker.

[El Jefecito]

His recent performances just show you why Rafa has played on the right so often.

He does not control matches, too often he is nowhere near being the midfielder who supports strikers or the midfielder picking up helping tackle back.

We need a Playmaker.

That's Xabi, Rafa's system can only accomodate a deep lying playmaker. His second striker always plays with his back to goal to link up midfield and attack, while allowing the other striker to last off the last defender.

We already have a class #10 in Ben Onion, but I doub't we'll see him there much (maybe in a CL game, but definitely not the EPL).

[Kopite_Colin]

When Alonso has license to go forward, he scores goals.

Funny that you mention our line up against Milan in the CL final, which looked liked this in the second half:

---------------Dudek---------------
---Carragher---Hyypia----Traore----
Smicer---Alonso----Hamann-----Riise
-----Gerrard---Baros---Garcia-------

(Gerrard swapped with Smicer and played as a right wing back after Serginho was put on). When Gerrard was in the middle alone with Alonso, we got ****ted 3-0.

And it's also funny that you mention the line up in the F.A cup final:

Reina
Finnan Carragher Hyypia Riise
Gerrard Alonso Sissoko Kewell
Cisse Crouch

Before you mention substitutions and changes, Gerrard was a central midfielder for about 5 minutes, between the taking off of Alonso and the introduction of Hamann. Throughout the match, Gerrard had two CM's behind him at all times.

You can quote formations all you like but the fact remains - SG was in the MIDDLE of the park when he scored in all 3 of those games- not coming in from wide areas. Even the pen we got in the CL Final was from a driving run through the middle. Like I said - we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I agree about the SG & ALonso in the 1st half of the 2005 CL Final - that is one circumstance in which I WOULD play him on the right - but only because of the quality of the opposition. I would have done it again in this year's CL Final too (palying with 1 up was madness). Because you can bet that SG wouldn't have f*cked up with the quality of the cross that Pennant put into him in the first few minutes of that game. The downside of that arguement is that had SG been on the right there, it's unlikely we'd have had another body breaking into the box to tbe available for the pass anyway.

[Imy]

That's Xabi, Rafa's system can only accomodate a deep lying playmaker. His second striker always plays with his back to goal to link up midfield and attack, while allowing the other striker to last off the last defender.

We already have a class #10 in Ben Onion, but I doub't we'll see him there much (maybe in a CL game, but definitely not the EPL).

I class a playmaker as someone who can produce moments of magic, like Maradona, Zidane, Ronaldo, Messi.

Xabi is a quarter back as such not a playmaker.

Using your theory of the second striker we should have gone and got Tevez.

[yukpo]

Needs a new motivation

maybe take the captaincy off him?

[JohnDoe]

You can quote formations all you like but the fact remains - SG was in the MIDDLE of the park when he scored in all 3 of those games- not coming in from wide areas. Even the pen we got in the CL Final was from a driving run through the middle. Like I said - we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Which brings me to my point, Gerrard had the FREEDOM to do those things because he wasn't burdened with the job of being our playmaker, sitting in a deeper position. I'm not expecting Gerrard to stay on the flank when he plays on the right, Rafa puts him there to give him the license to drift into the middle when he wants to and cause damage. Wide midfielders aren't restricted to stay where they are and this is where I feel Gerrard is at his best, under no pressure to make that incisive pass, under no pressure to carry the team and under no pressure to keep us ticking when things go wrong.