Time for Benítez to give Gerrard a wide berth

[CAD]

I got nothing else

that made me smile

Have a good weekend, mate.

[El Jefecito]

that made me smile

Have a good weekend, mate.

Likewise

[alunevans]

The reason Xabi does not score many goals is that he is camped in his half most of the time.

But thats where his shooting is at its most dangerous

[peekay]

But thats where his shooting is at its most dangerous

Hard to argue with that

[Kopite_Colin]

Form is temporary, class is permanent - old saying and all that. And Gerrard is exactly that - a CLASS central midfielder with poor CURRENT form. So he should play in the middle if his form allows it, and if it's best form the team. If Gerrard currently happens to be our best option at RM, then that's the fault of the manager for not buying someone better, and leaves us very short of attacking CM midfield talent. A fit, in form, Steven Gerrard in central midfield - there is simply no-one one better.

[badpiggy]

Form is temporary, class is permanent - old saying and all that. And Gerrard is exactly that - a CLASS central midfielder with poor CURRENT form. So he should play in the middle if his form allows it, and if it's best form the team. If Gerrard currently happens to be our best option at RM, then that's the fault of the manager for not buying someone better, and leaves us very short of attacking CM midfield talent. A fit, in form, Steven Gerrard in central midfield - there is simply no-one one better.

that's similar to saying that if ronaldinho is the best barca have on the left then it's the managers fault for not buying a proper left winger.

[Kopite_Colin]

No, it means that SG is at his best as a CMer. He can do a job (and better then most) at Rm, but his best position is in CM. You're not telling me we wouldn't benefit more from having a proper RMer / RWer on the right, and a fit, in-form SG in the middle?

As for Ronaldinho, he's a one-off. But he CANNOT (as with Messi) play in CM, he simply doesn't have the attributes, and so it is not his position. Central Midfield IS SG's position.

[Neil Young]

No, it means that SG is at his best as a CMer. He can do a job (and better then most) at Rm, but his best position is in CM. You're not telling me we wouldn't benefit more from having a proper RMer / RWer on the right, and a fit, in-form SG in the middle?

As for Ronaldinho, he's a one-off. But he CANNOT (as with Messi) play in CM, he simply doesn't have the attributes, and so it is not his position. Central Midfield IS SG's position.

Maybe it was but it isn't any more. Football changes and so the demands of playing in particular positions change.

Also it's up to the manager to set up how the team plays. Maybe Benitez wants things from central midfielders that Gerrard is not the best at doing.

We're just going round in circles, as ever in this forum.

[badpiggy]

No, it means that SG is at his best as a CMer. He can do a job (and better then most) at Rm, but his best position is in CM. You're not telling me we wouldn't benefit more from having a proper RMer / RWer on the right, and a fit, in-form SG in the middle?

As for Ronaldinho, he's a one-off. But he CANNOT (as with Messi) play in CM, he simply doesn't have the attributes, and so it is not his position. Central Midfield IS SG's position.

i don't think either of us will change the other's mind but i would maintain that SG isn't a central midfielder either - win the ball, hold it, find a pass, move, create, track back. he can certainly cause damage running from central attacking areas but i think that this makes him a sort of marauding attacker not a CM. and to be honest, i'm not sure where he himself got the idea that he is a central midfielder from. i think SG likes to think that he is a patrick viera/roy keane type player but he certainly has not developed into one of these at all. his england career proves this too. as it does with frank lampard.

unfortunately my opinion on SG is not widely held - he's a problem rafa would prefer not to have. rafa doesn't like building a team around an individual and SG doesn't really fit into rafa's systems except on the right.

[Neil Young]

So we have:

Gerrard = Marauding Attacker
Sissoko = Forward-lying Defensive Harasser

Any more new positions* for our players?



* Not that kind of 'position', Kendo.

[badpiggy]

So we have:

Gerrard = Marauding Attacker
Sissoko = Forward-lying Defensive Harasser

Any more new positions* for our players?




* Not that kind of 'position', Kendo.

xabi - pivotal non-attacking central midfielder with responsibilties for short to medium distance passing, long range shots and sneakily and repeatedly kicking frank lampard until he's booked for retaliating.

kuyt - backwards striking occasional winger with reponsibilities for getting into goalscoring positions in the centre circle and running on the spot with back to goal.

this is a good game

[AFII]

Maybe it was but it isn't any more. Football changes and so the demands of playing in particular positions change.

Also it's up to the manager to set up how the team plays. Maybe Benitez wants things from central midfielders that Gerrard is not the best at doing.

We're just going round in circles, as ever in this forum.

Gerrard is best in a free position and in Rafa's new system that position don't exist. So far Gerrard has failed to deliver in the new system but so has a lot of the players. Give him the rest of the season and judge him after that.

If Gerrard don't deliver then he should be sold just as any other player. No player is bigger than the team. It's now up to Stevie and a lot of the other players to show that they want to stay and that means that they must play better than they have done this season.

We can't afford to carry any passengers if we want to win the league and Rafa knows that.

[Helios Creed]

i don't think either of us will change the other's mind but i would maintain that SG isn't a central midfielder either - win the ball, hold it, find a pass, move, create, track back. he can certainly cause damage running from central attacking areas but i think that this makes him a sort of marauding attacker not a CM. and to be honest, i'm not sure where he himself got the idea that he is a central midfielder from. i think SG likes to think that he is a patrick viera/roy keane type player but he certainly has not developed into one of these at all. his england career proves this too. as it does with frank lampard.

unfortunately my opinion on SG is not widely held - he's a problem rafa would prefer not to have. rafa doesn't like building a team around an individual and SG doesn't really fit into rafa's systems except on the right.

I'm inclined to agree - because SG needs such a free role, I think he only works with a very defensive MF alongside him e.g. Didi, who Rafa was very keen to get rid of. Rafa doesn't seem to like having a player whose role is so negative on the pitch. The only place where SG can have the freedom he needs, without having other players have to base their game around his, is in a non-central role. Wow, Rafa was right and all the pundits on TV were wrong, what a surprise...

[Kopite_Colin]

Tell me what SG cannot do in CM?

He may not do all it in a team set up by Rafa, but you can't tell me SG can't do it. Gerrard proved he can do most things in his early career in CM. He can run all day, beat people, tackle, defend and hit 40-yard passes. He now plays afor Rafa further up the pitch than he ever used to do in an LFC shirt, and yet his form is more patchy now than it ever has been. Ever stop to think this may be Rafa's fault not Stevie's? (I'm not saying it is, I'm saying it could be). People seem to have forgotten just how good a tackler SG is (there was reason he was moved to RB in the 2005 CL Final).

SG started life a deeper-lying CMer, but as he matured it emerged that he could hurt teams more in the final third. With the multitude of CMer swe have who are better in our half than the opponents, he HAS to play the Att CM role (if we're making the assumption that Rafa wants a deep lying CMer and 1 further up the pitch which seem a sensible assumption given the evidence to date)

SG is one the best all-round CMers in the world. And we have him in our team. I can think of only 2 in this country / Europe I've ever seen who were better in terms of all round game: Souness and possibly Keane. He is a huge asset (especially when used properly) not a burden. Sure, like all players he has dips in form and shouldn't be given special treatment on that basis. But how often did we drop our club captain for poor form in the past: Yeats, Hughes, Thompson, Souness - not often.

Play your best players in their best positions consistently. Drop them if necessary - that's why you have a squad - but what you bring in needs to be better than what you already have. That currently isn't the case.

[Kopite_Colin]

rafa doesn't like building a team around an individual and SG doesn't really fit into rafa's systems except on the right.

That I agree with. But I think Rafa's wrong not to be able to get the best out of SG.