Lucas

[AFII]

Agreed.

And he seems to pick the right pass all the time, a bit like Scholes if I may dare to say to.
he is also good in finding space for himself and buying time on the ball, ala Alonso.

That is what I have said the whole time but no one listen to me

[Chrono]

That is what I have said the whole time but no one listen to me

You are a sort of a cross between Rashid, Marky and Guillem Balague but with far more knowledge of the game.

[Sarb]

That is what I have said the whole time but no one listen to me

Yeah that's right...but people just take the mick out of you. Just keep it up

[Dhav]

I think Phil Neville should publicly apologise to Lucas for denying hiim the goal. Will never happen though of course.

Phil Neville is a muppet, and acted like one with his antics on the line.

There would have hardly been any justice if we missed the pen what with them losing a man for all of the 2 mins left but us being denied a winning goal.

[flyboy]

played well..but then again he had plenty of space after everton went a man down. still too early to judge in my opinion

[Sarb]

I reckon in those instances where there is a blatant handball on the line where the player acts like a goalkeeper then it should be an automatic goal not a penalty. Not on about where it's point blank from a header off a corner but that was deliberate by Neville

[Dhav]

I reckon in those instances where there is a blatant handball on the line where the player acts like a goalkeeper then it should be an automatic goal not a penalty. Not on about where it's point blank from a header off a corner but that was deliberate by Neville

DWW made the same point in the pub today, and it is hard to argue against it because giving a goal is clearly the most just outcome.

But can you really ever give a goal under circumstances where the ball hasn't crossed the line? Kind of goes against the ethos of football (although admittedly so do the Neville antics we saw today)

[Imy]

Phil Neville is a muppet, and acted like one with his antics on the line.

There would have hardly been any justice if we missed the pen what with them losing a man for all of the 2 mins left but us being denied a winning goal.

I reckon in those instances where there is a blatant handball on the line where the player acts like a goalkeeper then it should be an automatic goal not a penalty. Not on about where it's point blank from a header off a corner but that was deliberate by Neville

I was thinking exactly the same thing.

[peekay]

I reckon in those instances where there is a blatant handball on the line where the player acts like a goalkeeper then it should be an automatic goal not a penalty. Not on about where it's point blank from a header off a corner but that was deliberate by Neville

Automatic goal plus red card with a 5 match ban

[Sarb]

DWW made the same point in the pub today, and it is hard to argue against it because giving a goal is clearly the most just outcome.

But can you really ever give a goal under circumstances where the ball hasn't crossed the line? Kind of goes against the ethos of football (although admittedly so do the Neville antics we saw today)

Personally I see it as outright cheating hoping that you get a second chance to prevent a bang on goal. It would have been a disgrace if Howard had saved the penalty as that ball was going in the net.

Oh and another point, Ian Darke, Keys and Gray were blatantly rooting for Everton today. When Kuyt had that goal disallowed in the first half Gray said it was offside. It was level. In the same situation against Marseille he went on all game about the goal that didn't stand eventhough the studio people said it was offside. ****s

[Dhav]

Personally I see it as outright cheating hoping that you get a second chance to prevent a bang on goal. It would have been a disgrace if Howard had saved the penalty as that ball was going in the net.

Oh and another point, Ian Darke, Keys and Gray were blatantly rooting for Everton today. When Kuyt had that goal disallowed in the first half Gray said it was offside. It was level. In the same situation against Marseille he went on all game about the goal that didn't stand eventhough the studio people said it was offside. ****s

Yes, I do agree with you that Neville's antics are outright cheating and I think aside from an Essien/Keane style deliberate leg breaker is about as unsporting as you can be on the pitch and it would have been an injustice if we'd been denied a goal.

But is the rule that the ball must cross the line for it to be a goal not sacrosanct and should be absolute and not qualified?

As for Gray - he is a ****, plain and simple. His reaction to Gerrard's substitution was pathetic - tabloid journalist reaction at its very worst, not to mention him trying to justify Neville's actions at the end.

[Sarb]

Yes, I do agree with you that Neville's antics are outright cheating and I think aside from an Essien/Keane style deliberate leg breaker is about as unsporting as you can be on the pitch and it would have been an injustice if we'd been denied a goal.

But is the rule that the ball must cross the line for it to be a goal not sacrosant and should be absolute and not qualified?

As for Gray - he is a ****, plain and simple. His reaction to Gerrard's substitution was pathetic - tabloid journalist reaction at its very worst, not to mention him trying to justify Neville's actions at the end.

You have a point but guess people have to ask that if it was a last game of the season and you needed to score to win the Premiership playing against the first place team and the ball is going in the net with the keeper nowhere and their defender just punches it away, you miss the penalty and they win the title, would that be fair? It's something that needs looking at I think. I would have been fcuked off if Howard had saved that

[Dhav]

You have a point but guess people have to ask that if it was a last game of the season and you needed to score to win the Premiership playing against the first place team and the ball is going in the net with the keeper nowhere and their defender just punches it away, you miss the penalty and they win the title, would that be fair? It's something that needs looking at I think. I would have been fcuked off if Howard had saved that

You too have a point. I see it much the way you do - handling on the line in that manner gives the defending team two opportunities to prevent a goal. In circumstances like today where Everton were penalised by losing a man but only for 2 mins as that's how long was left is clearly not right or just, especially if we'd subsequently missed the pen.

We definitely deserve the goal in those circumstances - it's the most just solution.

But it seems to me you go against the very philosophy of the game if you ever give a goal in a situation where the ball hasn't crossed the line. It's the golden rule of football - you play to score goals and you do that by getting the ball over the line. This is probably the one rule in the game you can't mess with IMO.

I think the rules make the best of a bad and difficult situation; a penalty and a red card. The only thing I would change is give players who do something like that at least a 3-4 match ban, as it is gross unsporting conduct IMO.

EDIT: Actually, come to think about it, what about giving a penalty but with no goalkeeper in the goal? Or the goalkeeper is not allowed to attempt to save it? That way you definitely get the goal you deserve, the defending team is denied the second opportunity to prevent the goal and you haven't breached the rule that the ball must cross the line for it to be a goal. May be there's not even a need to send the infringing player off, as the goal is guaranteed.

Bizarre solution I admit but I feel needing to get the ball over the line to score is the one rule of football you can't compromise.

[Sarb]

Yeah it's a difficult one but something that needs to be looked at. I'm surprised it's not happened in a way that has cost a team big time yet. Not sure if people can dig out instances where someone has done that and the penalty has then been saved

[Dhav]

Yeah it's a difficult one but something that needs to be looked at. I'm surprised it's not happened in a way that has cost a team big time yet. Not sure if people can dig out instances where someone has done that and the penalty has then been saved

Agreed. See my edit above - may be we need to give the attacking team the second chance to score, rather than the defending team the second chance to prevent the goal, like a pen with no keeper?