Rafa thread - decisions & comments etc

[Kaip]

15 pints and a rugby final later and I had a **** that made more sense than this thread

How many of them did you " accidentally " tip

[BobTheCharmer]

Well if he's fed up with SG then don't start him and certainly don't criticise him in public. It was shocking man management in my view

exactly. besides in a mersey derby I want someone to play with their heart. It shows they care. Rafa is very close to the line with SG that GH was with Fowler and Gullit with Shearer. The point of no return. We were seriously ****e again today and once more had the luck. Like with GH, it'll end and we'll lag further behind.

If Rafa can't work out after 3 seasons how to get the best out of one of the worlds best players in Gerrard then he never will. Had it not been for Gerrard we would have lost one nil.

[Sir Bob]

What did he say..

Steven Gerrard is the worst player to ever pull on a liverpool shirt ,
playing at right mid.

"Sorry guys, I had to take the GREAT STEVIE G OFF!!

I'm sory but i'm afraid i might have to do that sometimes.

"No Rafa, please dont
But I have too, he's playig ****e.

Ohhh.. OK THEN!

What Rafa said was I took Stevie off because he was playing with his heart and not his head.

Now in anyone's book thats a pretty direct criticism.
Would Rafa have said something publically against any other player, I doubt it.

I'm not saying SG should never be substituted but I don't believe a manager should publically criticise a player, particulary the captain

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

exactly. besides in a mersey derby I want someone to play with their heart. It shows they care. Rafa is very close to the line with SG that GH was with Fowler and Gullit with Shearer. The point of no return. We were seriously ****e again today and once more had the luck. Like with GH, it'll end and we'll lag further behind.

If Rafa can't work out after 3 seasons how to get the best out of one of the worlds best players in Gerrard then he never will. Had it not been for Gerrard we would have lost one nil.

Totally agree mate.

He got lucky yesterday. As he did against Spurs a couple of weeks ago and in Istanbul.

That said I'll take it.

But some of his decisions are becoming illogical in the extreme. Taking Gerrard off "because he was playing with passion and not his brain"? Words fail me, they really do.

[dww]

What Rafa said was I took Stevie off because he was playing with his heart and not his head.

Now in anyone's book thats a pretty direct criticism.
Would Rafa have said something publically against any other player, I doubt it.

I'm not saying SG should never be substituted but I don't believe a manager should publically criticise a player, particulary the captain

Would he have been questioned about any other player - no that observation is largely irrelevant.

I don't think it is petty - it's an explanation. Effectively it was a tactical switch to play with a less frenetic style. It maybe wasn't the best way to phrase it but it was a perfectly reasonable justification for his decision whether you agree with it or not.

I think that a manager needs to have complete control and it was far from the slating people are blowing it up to be.

It was notable that a few minutes after the substitution Gerrard was seen laughing and smiling on the bench (amusingly when Sky cut to it deliberately to do the 'he doesn't look happy with that decision picture). I think he took it like a professional. Which is a healthy sign. Everyone should look disappointed when they come off in a big game, it's how you react long term that is important. Even if it was a front he at least shows he values his relationship with team and manager enough to do it.

[Tom]

Totally agree mate.

He got lucky yesterday. As he did against Spurs a couple of weeks ago and in Istanbul.
But some of his decisions are becoming illogical in the extreme. Taking Gerrard off "because he was playing with passion and not his brain"? Words fail me, they really do.

oh please.

nicked shamelessly from ynwa:

11 Aug, 2007 Aston Villa Barclays Premier League A 2-1
15 Aug, 2007 Toulouse Champions League Qualifier (1) A 1-0
19 Aug, 2007 Chelsea Barclays Premier League H 1-1
25 Aug, 2007 Sunderland Barclays Premier League A 2-0
28 Aug, 2007 Toulouse Champions League Qualifier (2) H 4-0
01 Sep, 2007 Derby County Barclays Premier League H 6-0
15 Sep, 2007 Portsmouth Barclays Premier League A 0-0
18 Sep, 2007 FC Porto Champions League Group Phase A 1-1
22 Sep, 2007 Birmingham City Barclays Premier League H 0-0
25 Sep, 2007 Reading Third round Carling Cup A 4-2
29 Sep, 2007 Wigan Athletic Barclays Premier League A 1-0
03 Oct, 2007 Olympique Marseille H 0-1
07 Oct, 2007 Tottenham Hotspur Barclays Premier League H 2-2
20 Oct, 2007 Everton Barclays Premier League A 2-1

look above...thats 26 goals scored in 14 games
and 9 goals conceded in 14 games....
we have won 8 games, drawn 5 and lost.............once

[akjs123]

Totally agree mate.

He got lucky yesterday. As he did against Spurs a couple of weeks ago and in Istanbul.

That said I'll take it.

But some of his decisions are becoming illogical in the extreme. Taking Gerrard off "because he was playing with passion and not his brain"? Words fail me, they really do.

Lucky with what exactly yesterday. In the second half, Riise should have scored from the Kuyt pull back and Kuyt should have scored from the rebound header. If they had, we would have won the game 4-1. Then how many of you would be talking about him being lucky.

[Sir Bob]

We were lucky yesterday. They had 2 stone cold penalties turned down whilst Kuyt should have been sent off for a truely shocking tackle.

We won but in my view it was despite Rafa and not because of him.

Rafa has done some truely brilliant things for the club but his decisions at times are baffling in the extreme. Yesterday I don't know one fan that agreed with substituting SG and just because we won doesn't make it the right decision. To substitue him for playing with his heart was a joke. If thats the case then he'd better substitute Carra every game because he always plays with his heart.

Foe me this is a massive season for Rafa. He must show that he understands how to win the English league because for all his European brilliance he has yet to show us that.

[Guest]

We were lucky yesterday. They had 2 stone cold penalties turned down whilst Kuyt should have been sent off for a truely shocking tackle.

We won but in my view it was despite Rafa and not because of him.

Rafa has done some truely brilliant things for the club but his decisions at times are baffling in the extreme. Yesterday I don't know one fan that agreed with substituting SG and just because we won doesn't make it the right decision. To substitue him for playing with his heart was a joke. If thats the case then he'd better substitute Carra every game because he always plays with his heart.

Foe me this is a massive season for Rafa. He must show that he understands how to win the English league because for all his European brilliance he has yet to show us that.

They were lucky we didn't score 5 goals.

[Tom]

Foe me this is a massive season for Rafa. He must show that he understands how to win the English league because for all his European brilliance he has yet to show us that.

He did that yesterday by making a brilliant tactical substitution after having the insight to realise that gerrard playing were he was, in the way he was, wasn't going to win us the game.

[Sir Bob]

They were lucky we didn't score 5 goals.

No they weren't. We were lucky that every major decision went our way. I thought that the first peno was correct and that Hibbert should have gone but it could easily have gone the other way.

Kuyt's tackle was horrible and could have easily ended Neville's career if he'd connected. As for the 2 other penalty shouts the first was a probable penalty but the 2nd was cast iron.

I hate the Bitters and I'm glad we won but we were very lucky with the refereeing decisons just as we were unlucky against Chelsea

[alunevans]

They were lucky we didn't score 5 goals.

Yes and no. We weren't missing them out of misfortune, but out of ****e finishing.

[alunevans]

No they weren't. We were lucky that every major decision went our way. I thought that the first peno was correct and that Hibbert should have gone but it could easily have gone the other way.

Kuyt's tackle was horrible and could have easily ended Neville's career if he'd connected. As for the 2 other penalty shouts the first was a probable penalty but the 2nd was cast iron.

I hate the Bitters and I'm glad we won but we were very lucky with the refereeing decisons just as we were unlucky against Chelsea

I think you're being a bit harsh on Kuyt. If he'd been showing his studs then ok, but what kept him on the pitch was that he wasn't. I don't think it would have ended Neville's career. He would have just got a good kick in the side of the leg. A bruising but no more.

At first look I gasped. At second look, it wasn't as bad as it appeared. Not pretty, but not a red because he never showed his studs and it wasn't as dangerous in my view as you're portraying.

Also, the first of their shouts was never a pen in a month of Sundays, but I agree the second one was as bang on as you're going to get. They'd have got the pen 99 times out of 100.

Then again, Pepe mighta saved it knowing Pepe

[Guest]

No they weren't. We were lucky that every major decision went our way. I thought that the first peno was correct and that Hibbert should have gone but it could easily have gone the other way.

Kuyt's tackle was horrible and could have easily ended Neville's career if he'd connected. As for the 2 other penalty shouts the first was a probable penalty but the 2nd was cast iron.

I hate the Bitters and I'm glad we won but we were very lucky with the refereeing decisons just as we were unlucky against Chelsea

I don't see it that way. I felt we were the better team and the only team trying to play proper football. We just can't seem to finish off our chances, that's been our problem last year and this year. It's just that we're picking up more points and our away form has greatly improved.

As for 'bad refereeing' decisions, that's debatable. Kuyt probably was lucky and the penalty decisions, well sometimes they go your way sometimes not. We need 'luck' on the refereeing front sometimes to win the league. All great teams have it.

[Morph]

No they weren't. We were lucky that every major decision went our way. I thought that the first peno was correct and that Hibbert should have gone but it could easily have gone the other way.

Kuyt's tackle was horrible and could have easily ended Neville's career if he'd connected. As for the 2 other penalty shouts the first was a probable penalty but the 2nd was cast iron.

I hate the Bitters and I'm glad we won but we were very lucky with the refereeing decisons just as we were unlucky against Chelsea

mate they had 1 shot on goal we had about 7, even if they did get a penno, Reina might well have save it, and they certainly weren't 2 stone wall penalties, the luck may have been with us yesterday, but it hasn't been with us in a few games, it's just swings and roundabouts, lets not forget we were missing Torres, Alonso, Agger, Arbeloa who would arguably all have started - lets make judgements when we shape up against the leaders next weekend