"Sissoko was doing a fantastic job" - Rafa

[mersey86]

what do you expect him to say - 'he's **** & no f**ker will give us a penny for him'?

IF Momo wants to leave then Rafa will talk him up just to get a few more £££'s for him..

Although a blind man can see how off form he is this season...

Off form - yes. Which implies he can play a lot better. For a twenty year old to have put in some of the stunning displays we have seen from Sissoko, that for me is not the sort of player you want shut of.

[desertscouser]

Very weird comments re Sissoko. I can only hope that he's making such comments in the hope of boosting Sissoko's confidence (although confidence won't improve his ability to pass a ffotball) or just to try and get more money for him come January or the summer.

[Joe Le Toff]

What ****ing game was he watching?

Jesus wept.

[akjs123]

You see Alun, the problem is that fans and media are too damn naive. Not having a go at you but here's my opinion. Everytime we lose/draw a bunch of people come out saying Rafa is too defensive to win the league. When he subbed Gerrard for Lucas on saturday, the whole football world, the players included, were going "Why he subbed Gerrard is beyond me and everyone else I know" and there were a ton of newspaper articles and forums posts questioning his decision. Have any of these people ever thought that the reason why his decision was beyond them was because they dont even have 1% of footballing knowledge of Benitez. Is their action any different from some guy watching a chess match of Vishwanathan Anand saying "He shouldnt have made that move".
There have been a lot of posts saying Momo should have been subbed instead of Gerrard. If you asked any of them how subbing Momo for Lucas would change the play in the game, you wont get anything beyond Momo is a defensive player who cant pass the ball while Gerrard is, we all know, Gerrard.

Now I am not saying I have as much knowledge as Benitez or even an average football fan but here is my taking on things. Gerrard is a much better creator and scorer of goals than Momo. But the first step of scoring the goal is having possession. Maybe Rafa thought having both Momo and Mashcerano high up the pitch would result in keeping Everton pinned inside their 18 yard box and that would result in more chances being created.
Then some may ask why bring on Lucas. Leave Gerrard on anyway. Maybe Rafa thought that if you are going to pin them in their 18 yard box, you need an intelligent passer of the ball who will always choose the right pass and can create chances and make sure they are pinned in their box. Xabi does this for us and now we also have Lucas. Rafa had the option of changing things or hoping for brilliance from Gerrard who is recovering from poor form.
As I said earlier, many people have said Rafa is too defensive everytime we lose/draw. I cannot believe people are still saying this after saturday. Rafa made a decision in order to win the match which, had we not won, would have caused far more backlash from the media and our own fans than had we lost with Gerrard on the field against 10 men.
Before you ask, no I am not a member of RCDNW brigade. I just believe that we dont have enough footballing knowledge to understand his tactics to be questioning them. Results and style of play we can question, but tactics, no.

My prob Tom is that the manager was giving a negative brief against a team with ten men. Masher was already protecting the defence. Why also have someone on who is no more than a break-it-up player.

I don't think Momo played well personally, but more to the point I don't think his role was actually needed once we went a man up.

Even if its true that he was doing ok in his role as "a limited destructive player", my question is why we need a limited destructive player when you're drawing in the derby against 10 men, given that Masher is already offering the back 4 plenty of protection.

Rafa might have the bottle to be unpopular, but he doesn't have the bottle to take the game to the opposition if he prefers to keep both Masher and a limited destructive player on the park against a 10 man team. And that is my overriding worry.

[Tee]

"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple".
Bill Shankly

I think this is the key - we are an over complicated team. Obsessed with positions and tactics. Lets just set up 4-4-2, and play some football!

Unfortunately Sissoko is unable to meet the criteria outlined by Mr Shankly so if we get a decent offer for him in January he will go.

[CAD]

You see Alun, the problem is that fans and media are too damn naive. Not having a go at you but here's my opinion. Everytime we lose/draw a bunch of people come out saying Rafa is too defensive to win the league. When he subbed Gerrard for Lucas on saturday, the whole football world, the players included, were going "Why he subbed Gerrard is beyond me and everyone else I know" and there were a ton of newspaper articles and forums posts questioning his decision. Have any of these people ever thought that the reason why his decision was beyond them was because they dont even have 1% of footballing knowledge of Benitez. Is their action any different from some guy watching a chess match of Vishwanathan Anand saying "He shouldnt have made that move".
There have been a lot of posts saying Momo should have been subbed instead of Gerrard. If you asked any of them how subbing Momo for Lucas would change the play in the game, you wont get anything beyond Momo is a defensive player who cant pass the ball while Gerrard is, we all know, Gerrard.

Now I am not saying I have as much knowledge as Benitez or even an average football fan but here is my taking on things. Gerrard is a much better creator and scorer of goals than Momo. But the first step of scoring the goal is having possession. Maybe Rafa thought having both Momo and Mashcerano high up the pitch would result in keeping Everton pinned inside their 18 yard box and that would result in more chances being created.
Then some may ask why bring on Lucas. Leave Gerrard on anyway. Maybe Rafa thought that if you are going to pin them in their 18 yard box, you need an intelligent passer of the ball who will always choose the right pass and can create chances and make sure they are pinned in their box. Xabi does this for us and now we also have Lucas. Rafa had the option of changing things or hoping for brilliance from Gerrard who is recovering from poor form.
As I said earlier, many people have said Rafa is too defensive everytime we lose/draw. I cannot believe people are still saying this after saturday. Rafa made a decision in order to win the match which, had we not won, would have caused far more backlash from the media and our own fans than had we lost with Gerrard on the field against 10 men.
Before you ask, no I am not a member of RCDNW brigade. I just believe that we dont have enough footballing knowledge to understand his tactics to be questioning them. Results and style of play we can question, but tactics, no.

Pathetic. Now we're all too stupid to have an informed opinion compared to Rafa. Football isn't chess my friend.

Momo had a 68% pass completion. The worst on the pitch by some lengths! Compared to Mascher who had 82% etc etc. I don't think you have to bee Anand to conclude that we might have a better chance of coherent passing without Momo on our hands.

We got a winner in the last second here. I'm sure that we would have done much better with Gerrard and Lucas and Momo on the bench.

I can't believe that so few here understand that it's only natural that Everton broke down in the last 20 mins because they were only 10. Obviously Lucas had an easier job in the last 20 than Gerrard had in the first 20 in a 11/10 situation. Stating the obvious: players get tired when the have to play 10 against 11 for 45 mins. Guess when they suffer the most during that 45 min period.

[fred_plasticine]

I think this is the key - we are an over complicated team. Obsessed with positions and tactics. Lets just set up 4-4-2, and play some football!

Unfortunately Sissoko is unable to meet the criteria outlined by Mr Shankly so if we get a decent offer for him in January he will go.

here we go again ...

[akjs123]

I think this is the key - we are an over complicated team. Obsessed with positions and tactics. Lets just set up 4-4-2, and play some football!

Unfortunately Sissoko is unable to meet the criteria outlined by Mr Shankly so if we get a decent offer for him in January he will go.

How do you think we won the CL in 2005 and reached the final in 2007. If we tried to play like you suggest, Barca would have passed and moved rings around us and so would Arsenal.

[Tee]

It is about opinions FFS - that is MY opinion.

We won the CL in 2005 because of more than just tactics - if it wasn't for ceratin tactics we would not have been 3 down at half time in the first place!!

And I would argue that in 2007 we should not have taken Mascher off in the final!

[akjs123]

It is about opinions FFS - that is MY opinion.

We won the CL in 2005 because of more than just tactics - if it wasn't for ceratin tactics we would not have been 3 down at half time in the first place!!

And I would argue that in 2007 we should not have taken Mascher off in the final!

It is YOUR opinion I agree but I am merely pointing out that I dont agree with your opinion. Yes Rafa got his tactics wrong first half. But on the way to the final, beating Leverkusen away from home, beating Juventus and Chelsea en route were due to his tactics. Lets not forget he did it with so many injury problems and the strikers scoring a grand total of 1 goal after the group stages.

Not that I agree with you re Masch but as someone said, hindsight has 20-20 vision. If, like you suggest, he hadnt taken of Masch and we still hadnt won, people would be suggesting Rafa was too defensive and someone would probably be suggesting we should have taken off Masch.

[fred_plasticine]

Pathetic. Now we're all too stupid to have an informed opinion compared to Rafa. Football isn't chess my friend.

Momo had a 68% pass completion. The worst on the pitch by some lengths! Compared to Mascher who had 82% etc etc. I don't think you have to bee Anand to conclude that we might have a better chance of coherent passing without Momo on our hands.

We got a winner in the last second here. I'm sure that we would have done much better with Gerrard and Lucas and Momo on the bench.

I can't believe that so few here understand that it's only natural that Everton broke down in the last 20 mins because they were only 10. Obviously Lucas had an easier job in the last 20 than Gerrard had in the first 20 in a 11/10 situation. Stating the obvious: players get tired when the have to play 10 against 11 for 45 mins. Guess when they suffer the most during that 45 min period.

as stated in another thread, i'd have wanted him to take sissoko off as everyone else probably. fact is, however, that we had our best spell when lucas was brought on - or when gerrard left the field. you can't deny that gerrard tries to rush things sometimes and he did so on saturday. the big question is if lucas could have influenced the game with his assured passing had gerrard still been on the pitch. tough call i'd say. but don't take anything away from lucas' performance - he effectively won us the game.

[akjs123]

Pathetic. Now we're all too stupid to have an informed opinion compared to Rafa. Football isn't chess my friend.

Momo had a 68% pass completion. The worst on the pitch by some lengths! Compared to Mascher who had 82% etc etc. I don't think you have to bee Anand to conclude that we might have a better chance of coherent passing without Momo on our hands.

We got a winner in the last second here. I'm sure that we would have done much better with Gerrard and Lucas and Momo on the bench.

I can't believe that so few here understand that it's only natural that Everton broke down in the last 20 mins because they were only 10. Obviously Lucas had an easier job in the last 20 than Gerrard had in the first 20 in a 11/10 situation. Stating the obvious: players get tired when the have to play 10 against 11 for 45 mins. Guess when they suffer the most during that 45 min period.

First things first, the only reason we got a last second winner was because we didnt finish our chances. We would have finished the game off before Gerrard was subbed. We had two great chances, both in the 2nd half, one was a Kuyt rebound header from a Voronin shot, which would have gone in had he hit the target and the other was the Riise shot from Kuyt's pull back, both of which SHOULD have been scored. You cant blame Rafa for the players failure to finish off chances. The only people lucky were Kuyt and Riise to not have new threads about how **** they were and how they should be sold asap.

Secondly, here is a nice post by you in another thread so I feel I shouldnt argue with someone who has such an "informed" opinion.

Stevie has had a dry spell and finally gets us a penalty and performs in an important match. We are 11 against 10. Here is the perfect chance to give a key player some much needed confidence. What does he do? He subs him and keeps ****ing hole in the ground mother****ing Momo on the pitch. HALLO?!? The blind cried - they all knew we didn't need Momo. The kids asked their fathers what was going on. There were no answers. And who got the chance to close the game down? Yes - Momo the moron. Of course he just taps the 100% chance out of the pitch. We get a quick frame of Gerrard looking to the sky. Rafa looks lost. No Pennant though the game is crying out for him. You.must.be.joking!

I have ZERO confidence in Rafa. Too many time he has shown us that he can't cope with the PL. It will never change.

Stevie is class and he will come through and to the Momo lovers let me repeat what I have been saying since the first time I saw him:

Not good enough for LFC and never will be. Momo is the worst footballer I have ever seen in Red. Even Picknick were better on the ball. Dioa was pure genius compared to this hole in the ground.

And to compare Momo with Mascher is just a display of poor knowledge of the game. They have never played the same position. Mascher is a HM. Momo has never had the brains to be a HM and never will have. To say that we should sell Momo if we sign Mascher is incoherent nonsense.

We should just sell Momo period. And FAST!

[alunevans]

You see Alun, the problem is that fans and media are too damn naive. Not having a go at you but here's my opinion. Everytime we lose/draw a bunch of people come out saying Rafa is too defensive to win the league.

Ah but I said it following a win. We won, but I do still think it was a defensive managerial performance nonetheless. Many defensive managers get results but it doesn't mean they aren't defensive. George Graham used to get 1-0 for the Arse all the time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting even mildly that Rafa is George Graham cos he's not in the slightest. I simply use that analogy to demonstrate that you can still call a manager defensive even after he's won a game.

When he subbed Gerrard for Lucas on saturday, the whole football world, the players included, were going "Why he subbed Gerrard is beyond me and everyone else I know" and there were a ton of newspaper articles and forums posts questioning his decision. Have any of these people ever thought that the reason why his decision was beyond them was because they dont even have 1% of footballing knowledge of Benitez. Is their action any different from some guy watching a chess match of Vishwanathan Anand saying "He shouldnt have made that move".

It's possible I suppose but a lot of very qualified people were begging the same questions. And I've been watching football now for 30 years so I can't be completely clueless.

My real issue isn't even with the Gerrard sub although thats how it ultimately expressed itself. My issue is the fact that when they went down to 10 men, there were no changes to exploit that and be ruthless with them.

There have been a lot of posts saying Momo should have been subbed instead of Gerrard. If you asked any of them how subbing Momo for Lucas would change the play in the game, you wont get anything beyond Momo is a defensive player who cant pass the ball while Gerrard is, we all know, Gerrard.

And I think that's fair comment. When you have a man advantage what you want to do is move the ball around and pass them into the ground. Stretch them, keep the ball moving. Momo isn't the person I'd ask to do this job.

At half time I wanted Lucas on for Momo because at a goal down I couldn't see the point of a destroyer style midfielder who is poor in possession of the ball. I felt we needed more adventure.

Once the goal went in and they went a man down, the need to press home that advantage seemed all the more obvious, not less. But nothing happened for 15 mins. And when it did, it was an attack minded player that was withdrawn.

Now I am not saying I have as much knowledge as Benitez or even an average football fan but here is my taking on things. Gerrard is a much better creator and scorer of goals than Momo. But the first step of scoring the goal is having possession. Maybe Rafa thought having both Momo and Mashcerano high up the pitch would result in keeping Everton pinned inside their 18 yard box and that would result in more chances being created.

We're agreeing on a lot of the premises here but reaching different conclusions. The key for me is having possession. This is the reason why I wanted Lucas on for Momo at half time. Sissoko doesn't keep possession. He's not **** as some have said, but he's by no means a possession footballer. He's a destroyer. A bloody good one. But its horses for courses and I couldn't see the point of him when we were chasing the game against a 10 man side.

I don't really understand why Rafa would think Momo high up the pitch would create more chances than Gerrard.

Then some may ask why bring on Lucas. Leave Gerrard on anyway. Maybe Rafa thought that if you are going to pin them in their 18 yard box, you need an intelligent passer of the ball who will always choose the right pass and can create chances and make sure they are pinned in their box. Xabi does this for us and now we also have Lucas. Rafa had the option of changing things or hoping for brilliance from Gerrard who is recovering from poor form.

I wouldn't ask why bring on Lucas. I'd have had him on at half time. I'd ask why is Momo more likely to win you the game than Gerrard is. I can't think of a single answer to that question that makes any sense to me.

As I said earlier, many people have said Rafa is too defensive everytime we lose/draw. I cannot believe people are still saying this after saturday. Rafa made a decision in order to win the match which, had we not won, would have caused far more backlash from the media and our own fans than had we lost with Gerrard on the field against 10 men.
Before you ask, no I am not a member of RCDNW brigade. I just believe that we dont have enough footballing knowledge to understand his tactics to be questioning them. Results and style of play we can question, but tactics, no.

I disagree with that. We may not have the micro management skills of those who are top managers but there are certain things that we've been brought up with. Many of them are things you've already mentioned, like the need to have possession of the ball. Or the issue of who is likely to create or get a goal when you need one out of Momo or Gerrard?

I fully agree with Lucas coming on. I just think that Rafa is at heart a conservative manager and the fact that it took him 15 mins after the sending off to bring him on indicates that, as does leaving on Momo.

That's my view anyhow. Thanks for such a well argued post.

[Roboklopp]

My prob Tom is that the manager was giving a negative brief against a team with ten men. Masher was already protecting the defence. Why also have someone on who is no more than a break-it-up player.

I don't think Momo played well personally, but more to the point I don't think his role was actually needed once we went a man up.

Even if its true that he was doing ok in his role as "a limited destructive player", my question is why we need a limited destructive player when you're drawing in the derby against 10 men, given that Masher is already offering the back 4 plenty of protection.

Rafa might have the bottle to be unpopular, but he doesn't have the bottle to take the game to the opposition if he prefers to keep both Masher and a limited destructive player on the park against a 10 man team. And that is my overriding worry.

Couldnt agree more mate- very worrying.

[Emmo]

When Everton had 10 men they where pushing up more than when they had 11 players.

They where very good at pushing us, limiting our space and time.

Gerrard had to come off because he was not playing in the way that Rafa wanted.

He went 4-3-3 to push up on their full backs, hold them back. That means that the 3 in midfield needed to break up and cover more than 4 players and they needed to hold their positions better, Stevie wasnt doing this and had to be subbed.

Emmo