Crouchy and his Wag

[alunevans]

Kuyt for this season has better stats then Crouch in pretty much every department.

Plus Rafa has said that he wants the team to play through the middle and with Crouch on the pitch the defenders have more of a tendency to play the ball long.

well they didn't against besiktas. and when they did he held it up and got it down and allowed us to keep playing. which is something our other forwards don't do nearly as well.

besides, you don't remove a threat because the other players are too sodding lazy to do anything other than lump it. you have a pop at those players and make sure they use the ball properly.

its like saying that the problem with having a fast striker is that other players just tend to lump it and say right lad chase that. (recall owen under ged).

would the fast striker be dropped, or would the ohter players be told to pass the ball properly and move for each other.

if crouch is sacrificed because of the inadequacies of his team mates then all that will happen is that we will be left with inadequate team mates who are so one dimensional that anytime we get someone who may be an aerial outlet (very useful when used correctly) that they'll just lump it.

that really reduces our options in my book. that strikes me as a role for coaching the others to play the right way rather than removing people like crouch for fear that his team mates might take the easy way out.

[carheex]

Kuyt for this season has better stats then Crouch in pretty much every department.

Plus Rafa has said that he wants the team to play through the middle and with Crouch on the pitch the defenders have more of a tendency to play the ball long.

A couple of things you might like to answer for me:

1) when has rafa said he wants the team to play through the middle?
2) rafa dictates tactics doesn;t he? if he didn't want the ball played long all he has to do is tell that to the defenders - are you suggesting that rafa is benching our 2nd best striker because our defenders tend to hoof it regardless of the tactics he defines??
3) with crouch on the pitch we have a better chance of scoring goals/winning games - that's a good thing innit??
4) what's all this rubbish about crouch being cocky???


For all the apparent hard work that kuyt does, only one thing wins games...goals. And like a paraplegic milkman, he ain't delivering.

[einar]

well they didn't against besiktas. and when they did he held it up and got it down and allowed us to keep playing. which is something our other forwards don't do nearly as well.

besides, you don't remove a threat because the other players are too sodding lazy to do anything other than lump it. you have a pop at those players and make sure they use the ball properly.

its like saying that the problem with having a fast striker is that other players just tend to lump it and say right lad chase that. (recall owen under ged).

would the fast striker be dropped, or would the ohter players be told to pass the ball properly and move for each other.

if crouch is sacrificed because of the inadequacies of his team mates then all that will happen is that we will be left with inadequate team mates who are so one dimensional that anytime we get someone who may be an aerial outlet (very useful when used correctly) that they'll just lump it.

that really reduces our options in my book. that strikes me as a role for coaching the others to play the right way rather than removing people like crouch for fear that his team mates might take the easy way out.

Before I start I´m gonna say that IMO we would have more points if we had played Crouch more. I dont know that but that is my opinion.

As for coaching the players I am not a coach. But if you tell your players to play through the middle you must also leave an option for the long ball. Even Arsenal does that. And Rafa has hinted that with Crouch on the field the defenders do not try as hard to find a player in midfield as when Kuyt is on.

That to me is Rafas determination to make the team play better football. Lets not forget, Crouch was bought for kick and run. Rafa endlessly said that he gave us options. Kick and run is what he was talking about. Having a target man upfront and playing long balls to him and then playing of that is a very effective game plan. But I think I can safely say that not any of the top clubs in Europe use that plan as their plan A.(until Morinho gets another job)

As for Crouch doing Kuyts job as well anyway, I dont buy it. I know Kuyt has not been playing well but the stats dont lie. Plus Kuyts running creates more space then Crouch running. And IMO that is what this is all about. Rafa wants us to play a better passing game, and that is much easier with Kuyt as he is doing better in passing, tackling, winning the ball back and closing players down. Plus creating more space for others with his endless running.

I know Crouch is good with his feet but he is just far to slow to be properly effective in a pass and move game in a top side.

[alunevans]

The problem is that Kuyt is as slow as I've seen.

Crouch is an ideal outlet for that long ball which you rightly say is occasionally needed.

So if we agree that we need an outlet for a long ball (and surely Crouch is a better outlet than anyone else for such a thing), then why drop Crouch because his one dimensional team mates overdo the long ball??

You instead identify their overreliance on the long ball and coach it out of them. Or you move the uncoachables out the side.

You don't get rid of your best outlet having accepted that you need him in the first place - simply because nobody else is capable of playing your preferred system, or because you're incapable of coaching them accordingly.

If we need that outlet Crouch is your man. He's even good on the ground, and he's certainly no slower than Kuyt.

I just don't see how it adds up.

[einar]

A couple of things you might like to answer for me:

1) when has rafa said he wants the team to play through the middle?
2) rafa dictates tactics doesn;t he? if he didn't want the ball played long all he has to do is tell that to the defenders - are you suggesting that rafa is benching our 2nd best striker because our defenders tend to hoof it regardless of the tactics he defines??
3) with crouch on the pitch we have a better chance of scoring goals/winning games - that's a good thing innit??
4) what's all this rubbish about crouch being cocky???


For all the apparent hard work that kuyt does, only one thing wins games...goals. And like a paraplegic milkman, he ain't delivering.

1. Read an interview where he hinted at that. Cant remember which interview.

2..This goes into how you see coaching. Players are not robots. They dont always do what you tell them. And IMHO what Rafa is trying to do is create conditions where playing pass and move is encouraged. I dont think many managers have won a trophy with pass and move in their first few seasons. It seems to be a case of getting "their players" in. That for me also hints at this not being just a case of telling the players to pass and move and then they will. I think it might not be that simple.

3. Yes, but IMHO Rafa is trying to move the club forward. That means playing better football, even if it might have cost us a point or two along the way. I do agree that that progress was slowed down by the team and to a larger degree Kuyt was very much of form. But Rafa decided to stick with it and I respect him for that.

4. I dont know. I never said that.

ps this is all just my opinion, please dont ask for how I know all this because I dont.

[einar]

The problem is that Kuyt is as slow as I've seen.

Crouch is an ideal outlet for that long ball which you rightly say is occasionally needed.

So if we agree that we need an outlet for a long ball (and surely Crouch is a better outlet than anyone else for such a thing), then why drop Crouch because his one dimensional team mates overdo the long ball??

You instead identify their overreliance on the long ball and coach it out of them. Or you move the uncoachables out the side.

You don't get rid of your best outlet having accepted that you need him in the first place - simply because nobody else is capable of playing your preferred system, or because you're incapable of coaching them accordingly.

If we need that outlet Crouch is your man. He's even good on the ground, and he's certainly no slower than Kuyt.

I just don't see how it adds up.

They might not be far apart on top speed, but it takes Crouch 3 min to reach is top speed.

To answer the rest seem my other post. nr. 35

[Craig_H]

i don't think theres been any evidence of him being cocky and too big for his boots. he seems as self effacing and modest as ever when i've seen him interviewed.

besides, he's still the 2nd best striker at the club.

Spot on.

People have seen 'cocky' mentioned in a couple of articles and now cling to it. It's bollocks IMO.

[Craig_H]

how do you know that K&V haven't been training better than him? By all accounts he's lost the eye of the tiger, so no suprise he's been on the margins!

It doesnt matter whatsoever what happens in training. Crouch is better when he plays - he scores goals. End of.

[Craig_H]

Who did he score the goals against while playing for England......??

Jamaica and other International pub teams........

He was our top scorer last season. 18 in 26 starts. That stat in itself justifies his claims. Especially when Kuyt couldnt hit water out of a boat.

[Craig_H]

A couple of things you might like to answer for me:

1) when has rafa said he wants the team to play through the middle?
2) rafa dictates tactics doesn;t he? if he didn't want the ball played long all he has to do is tell that to the defenders - are you suggesting that rafa is benching our 2nd best striker because our defenders tend to hoof it regardless of the tactics he defines??
3) with crouch on the pitch we have a better chance of scoring goals/winning games - that's a good thing innit??
4) what's all this rubbish about crouch being cocky???


For all the apparent hard work that kuyt does, only one thing wins games...goals. And like a paraplegic milkman, he ain't delivering.

[einar]

It doesnt matter whatsoever what happens in training. Crouch is better when he plays - he scores goals. End of.

And how many goals per min does Crouch have this season?

Are they not just both of form?

[Craig_H]

And how many goals per min does Crouch have this season?

Are they not just both of form?

Crouch has barely started this season. When he starts games, his record is good.

Not sure you can say Crouch is off form. He might look 'off form' when sat on the bench, but he usually scores when he gets to play from the off.

[Kaip]

It doesnt matter whatsoever what happens in training.

Why build a multi million pound training complex, why have a big squad who try to impress their manager in training



**** it, just turn up on a saturday afternoon with yer boots

[Craig_H]

Why build a multi million pound training complex, why have a big squad who try to impress their manager in training



**** it, just turn up on a saturday afternoon with yer boots

:bird: You know what i mean, knuto...

I couldnt care less who does well in training, i'm more concerned with what happens in matches.

[Kaip]

:bird: You know what i mean, knuto...

I couldnt care less who does well in training, i'm more concerned with what happens in matches.

Nobody knows whats going on in your head ****face