Kuyt scores more often than Crouch - FACT!

[tomasjj]

OK, so lets defuse a bit of a myth here, namely that Crouch scores more goals than Kuyt.

I am no huge stats fan, but it seems some are.


Here are their stats for their LFC career in total, all competitions:

Kuyt

Games Sub Goals
62 (13) 19
A goal every 3.26 games.

Crouch

Games Sub Goals
111 (31) 34

A goal every 3.26 games.

Evens!

Ah... but I am taaaalking about the Premiership mate...that is what maaaatters!

OK!

Kuyt

Games Sub Goals
44 (9) 14
A goal every 3.14 games.

Crouch

Games Sub Goals
70 (22) 17

A goal every 4.12 games.


Ahhhh.. but that donkey Kuyt taaakes Penos, laaaa! It's not faaaaair!

OK!

Kuyt
Taken two, scored both.

Crouch
Taken one, missed.

(excluding goals in shoot outs)

Kuyt games pr goal -minus the 2 penalties : 3.67 to Crouch's 4.12


Ahh... but maaaate! Crouch has so many more assists!!


We were talking about goals....so spin on this



But if you must know....
(According to ESPN one of the few to post assists, all other stats from BBC)

Kuyt PL assists
44 games 5 assists

One assist every 8,8 games.

Crouch PL assists
70 games 14 assists

One assist every 5 games.

Yup, Crouch assists goals more often than Kuyt.
Well played Peter.

But we were talking about goals...

If you want to bring assists into the equation, even if this is about goals, fair enough. I also think that one should look behind mere numbers and look at the total contribution a player makes. Yes, even if they are strikers, because it doesn't matter who scores as long as the team wins, striker or not. But a strikers job is to score goals? Yes, but not just that!

When we start talking about all around contribution to our team play and wins, this also means you have to consider more than who was the second last on the ball (assists). A key pass is important, but so is the tackle that won us the ball in our own half and the decoy run made by another player to create the opening.

The reason I used numbers here is that often there is no other way to get a lot of people accept that you might have a point.
However, as I said before, we should look behind the numbers, but then the English were always quite commercial and enjoy counting their shillings...

[AFII]

I would sell Crouch, Kuyt and Voronin. Keep Babel and Torres then sign up one or two high quality attacking player(s).

Nothing to do with stats, they are just not good enough to do an excellent job week in week out.

[Kopite_Colin]

Very interesting post. Cheers Tomas.

[dww]

I would be interested to see how Crouches ratios are affected by taking out his first 18 games. I know it is controversial but I think the fact he took a while to settle skews those stats a bit. It is reasonable to assume that after that is the most representative of what he would do in the future.

Kuyt on the other hand (no stats to back me up I'm afraid). Seems to have been getting less prolific over his time with us. I hope he gets his confidence back in front of goal as when he offers a threat I think he is a very good player but at the minute he tends to blunt our attacking play.

[Craig_H]

OK, so lets defuse a bit of a myth here, namely that Crouch scores more goals than Kuyt.

I am no huge stats fan, but it seems some are.


Here are their stats for their LFC career in total, all competitions:

Kuyt

Games Sub Goals
62 (13) 19
A goal every 3.26 games.

Crouch

Games Sub Goals
111 (31) 34

A goal every 3.26 games.

Evens!

Ah... but I am taaaalking about the Premiership mate...that is what maaaatters!

OK!

Kuyt

Games Sub Goals
44 (9) 14
A goal every 3.14 games.

Crouch

Games Sub Goals
70 (22) 17

A goal every 4.12 games.


Ahhhh.. but that donkey Kuyt taaakes Penos, laaaa! It's not faaaaair!

OK!

Kuyt
Taken two, scored both.

Crouch
Taken one, missed.

(excluding goals in shoot outs)

Kuyt games pr goal -minus the 2 penalties : 3.67 to Crouch's 4.12


Ahh... but maaaate! Crouch has so many more assists!!


We were talking about goals....so spin on this



But if you must know....
(According to ESPN one of the few to post assists, all other stats from BBC)

Kuyt PL assists
44 games 5 assists

One assist every 8,8 games.

Crouch PL assists
70 games 14 assists

One assist every 5 games.

Yup, Crouch assists goals more often than Kuyt.
Well played Peter.

But we were talking about goals...

If you want to bring assists into the equation, even if this is about goals, fair enough. I also think that one should look behind mere numbers and look at the total contribution a player makes. Yes, even if they are strikers, because it doesn't matter who scores as long as the team wins, striker or not. But a strikers job is to score goals? Yes, but not just that!

When we start talking about all around contribution to our team play and wins, this also means you have to consider more than who was the second last on the ball (assists). A key pass is important, but so is the tackle that won us the ball in our own half and the decoy run made by another player to create the opening.

The reason I used numbers here is that often there is no other way to get a lot of people accept that you might have a point.
However, as I said before, we should look behind the numbers, but then the English were always quite commercial and enjoy counting their shillings...

Blah blah...

18 goals in 26 starts last season. Not given a chance this season. Kuyt's been useless.

End of.

[einar]

Blah blah...

18 goals in 26 starts last season. Not given a chance this season. Kuyt's been useless.

End of.

Welcome to the other tread.

[tomasjj]

I would be interested to see how Crouches ratios are affected by taking out his first 18 games. I know it is controversial but I think the fact he took a while to settle skews those stats a bit. It is reasonable to assume that after that is the most representative of what he would do in the future.

Kuyt on the other hand (no stats to back me up I'm afraid). Seems to have been getting less prolific over his time with us. I hope he gets his confidence back in front of goal as when he offers a threat I think he is a very good player but at the minute he tends to blunt our attacking play.

Mate, as I said I am no big stats fan, but why would you want to exclude those 18 first games?

If Kuyt took 18 games before he scored his first goal people would be calling for his head.

And remember Crouch was the one who had played in this league before and should needed less time than Kuyt to settle.

Crouch is in and out of the team, which makes it hard to get going, yes true. Kuyt on the other hand is told to work further back on the pitch, hampering his scoring chances but helping the team.

Kuyt has looked out of sorts lately, true. Crouch looked out of sorts earlier in this season imo. Form goes up and down. My post is not about who is the best choice up front at present time, just a look at their careers at LFC so far.

You see, I am no massive fan of any of the two, but I think there is some quite unfair favoritism going on here. Although your posts are usually balanced and reasonable, I think your suggestion of removing the 18 first games from the stats is another example of that.

[tomasjj]

Blah blah...

18 goals in 26 starts last season. Not given a chance this season. Kuyt's been useless.

End of.

Yeah keep your head in the sand.
:whatever:

The thread is not about who should start now.

[Craig_H]

Yeah keep your head in the sand.
:whatever:

The thread is not about who should start now.

Oh ok, it's about who should've started when Crouch didnt score in his 1st 18 games?

Worthwhile thread...

[tomasjj]

Oh ok, it's about who should've started when Crouch didnt score in his 1st 18 games?

Worthwhile thread...

No, it is not you sarky *******.
Try again.

[Craig_H]

It doesnt really matter tomas, Crouch is a much bigger goalscoring threat. Fact.

[einar]

It doesnt really matter tomas, Crouch is a much bigger goalscoring threat. Fact.

Define goalscoring threat.

[tomasjj]

It doesnt really matter tomas, Crouch is a much bigger goalscoring threat. Fact.

Right now, yes, I agree.

Throughout his LFC carrer though, is he?
The numbers state otherwise.

[Neil Young]

Blah blah...

18 goals in 26 starts last season. Not given a chance this season. Kuyt's been useless.

End of.

Oh ok, it's about who should've started when Crouch didnt score in his 1st 18 games?

Worthwhile thread...

It doesnt really matter tomas, Crouch is a much bigger goalscoring threat. Fact.

A fine example of why the football forums are a waste of time.

In my opinion of course.

[Kopite_Colin]

Personally I'd sell 2 of our 3 non-Torres strikers (including Crouch due to raise cash as he is our most saleable striker right now, and probably Voronin as he would raise more of a profit than Kuyt), Carson, Riise, Momo & possibly even Pennant (if he's fit in the window)

We need another proven goalscoring striker (proven in the Premiership if possible)
Top class winger (if not 2)
Centre Half (who can aslo play LB if possible)
Left Back if we don't get the above
Pay for Mascher

Carson = £10m
Crouch = £10m
Voronin = £3m
Momo = £10m
Riise = £4m

That's £37m in income (Without selling Pennant)

Striker Options (at the present time - who would entertain a move to LFC):
Berbatov
Aguero (assuming AFII is correct)
Huntelaar
Anelka
Bojinov (should be fit in Jan)
Alfonso Alves
Kenwynne Jones
Kanoute
Diego Milito

Of that list only Berbatov, Kanoute & Anelka are proven in the Prem

Wingers - who is realsitically available?

Mancini
Quaresma
Joaquin
Vicente (is he fit?)
Silva

Not that easy really is it? £30m would probably secure a striker from the list above & a winger of decent quality. That would leave us with £7m + whatever was already in the pot to spend anyway to find a CB, cover for Aurelio and pay for Mascherano.

So we'd have a striker list of:

Torres, Babel, New Striker & Kuyt

A winger / wide player list of:

New winger, Kewell, Benayoun, Pennant, Leto (+ Gerrard & Babel if necessary)

Centre Midfield of:

Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano, Leiva (+ Benayoun if necessary)

Back 4 of:

New CB (Who can play LB)
Carra
Agger
Hyypia
Arbeloa
Finnan
Insua

With Putterill, Hammill, Anderson, Threlfall, Spearing, Hobbs, Roque, Antwi, Flynn, Lindfield, Darby, El Zhar, Guthrie, Idrizaj, Ajdarevic, Amoo & Eccleston all in the background