All those who want Rafa sacked...

[Le Chacal]

Letting your best striker on the bench in a league game at home, changing formations and players week in week out, playing your captain in 4 positions, with different players around him in less than 2 weeks, being cautious against the likes of Blackburn or Besiktas...
Is all of this "trying to get the best out of his squad"?
That sounds like the exact opposite to me.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

I'll be honest, I'm far from convinced by him.

Yes he's great in Europe, It's beyond debate.

But in the league he's still not convincing.

I see him starting a side against Blackburn recently with Kuyt up front on his own - which hasn't worked previously - our best player utilized out of position and the team sitting back and not attacking, until late in the game.

I wonder when instances like that above will cease to happen under Rafa, and I keep waiting.

Certain excuses are starting to wear thin, like we have injuries etc. But that's no excuse for sending your team out to play in such a negative manner.

Are we really going to challenge for the league when Rafa shows such an outright negative streak?

It's fine in Europe playing away when it's a knockout over 2 legs, but in league play it pays off to attack and win the game. What's better 2 wins and a loss, or 1 Win and 2 draws?

What really worried me was his criticism of Gerrard after the derby, it was bizarre bordering on the obtuse. Playing with too much passion? This concerns me. I think to win the Premiership you have to have players who are completely and totally motivated to win it. It's a mentality, a desire. I'm not questioning Rafas desire to win it, or the players.

But can you play the game of football without passion, or any kind of atmosphere? I hate to bring up the self titled - so far up his own arse he could eat his own ****e - special one, but look at those title winning sides he had, yes he had countless millions to spend but the team spirit and bond he had with his players was an integral part of their success. I just don’t see Rafa doing this with our players, he seems too detached, I just can’t see how that can be a positive for us.

Where I give Rafa credit is that he’s not afraid to jettison players who clearly aren’t up to standards. That why I fail to understand when people say we shouldn't make a lot of changes in the January window. The likes of Pennant, Kuyt, Sissoko and Riise bring only mediocrity to the table, so how is selling and replacing them going to hurt us? Even if we only sold them we'd be better off because it's better to have a smaller squad with few mediocres than a larger squad with too many.

So while I do think Rafa needs to improve we do need better players. It’s not all down to him. By and large his signings have been a success.

I don’t want him to be sacked, far from it. But I do want him to be more progressive tactically in the Premier league. I really couldn’t give a **** about what he says. I want him to get us back to the top of the pile before we fawn over his legendary soundbytes.

[Le Chacal]

Very good post.
If we sell these players, we'll have to find better ones in the same window. I wouldnt sell If we hadnt a replacement. Quality and quantity are needed for the next crucial months.
This squad is good enough to challenge for the title if Rafa uses it properly.

[Maestro]

I'll be honest, I'm far from convinced by him.

Yes he's great in Europe, It's beyond debate.

But in the league he's still not convincing.

I see him starting a side against Blackburn recently with Kuyt up front on his own - which hasn't worked previously - our best player utilized out of position and the team sitting back and not attacking, until late in the game.

I wonder when instances like that above will cease to happen under Rafa, and I keep waiting.

Certain excuses are starting to wear thin, like we have injuries etc. But that's no excuse for sending you team out to play in such a negative manner.

Are we really going to challenge for the league when Rafa shows such an outright negative streak?

It's fine in Europe playing away when it's a knockout over 2 legs, but in league play it pays off to attack and win the game. What's better 2 wins and a loss, or 1 Win and 2 draws?

What really worried me was his criticism of Gerrard after the derby, it was bizarre bordering on the obtuse. Playing with too much passion? This concerns me. I think to win the Premiership you have to have players who are completely and totally motivated to win it. It's a mentality, a desire. I'm not questioning Rafas desire to win it, or the players.

But can you play the game of football without passion, or any kind of atmosphere? I hate to bring up the self titled - so far up his own arse he could eat his own ****e - special one, but look at those title winning sides he had, yes he had countless millions to spend but the team spirit and bond he had with his players was an integral part of their success. I just don’t see Rafa doing this with our players, he seems too detached, I just can’t see how that can be a positive for us.

Where I give Rafa credit is that he’s not afraid to jettison players who clearly aren’t up to standards. That why I fail to understand when people say we shouldn't make a lot of changes in the January window. The likes of Pennant, Kuyt, Sissoko and Riise bring only mediocrity to the table, so how is selling and replacing them going to hurt us? Even if we only sold them we'd be better off because it's better to have a smaller squad with few mediocres than a larger squad with too many.

So while I do think Rafa needs to improve we do need better players. It’s not all down to him. By and large his signings have been a success.

I don’t want him to be sacked, far from it. But I do want him to be more progressive tactically in the Premier league. I really couldn’t give a **** about what he says. I want him to get us back to the top of the pile before we fawn over his legendary soundbytes.

A very good post Niall.

[desertscouser]

A very good post Niall.

I concur

[REDSCOUSER]

MY CITY


this my fave bit of the whole quote..RAFA YOU LEGEND

[REDSCOUSER]

I'll be honest, I'm far from convinced by him.

Yes he's great in Europe, It's beyond debate.

But in the league he's still not convincing.

I see him starting a side against Blackburn recently with Kuyt up front on his own - which hasn't worked previously - our best player utilized out of position and the team sitting back and not attacking, until late in the game.

I wonder when instances like that above will cease to happen under Rafa, and I keep waiting.

Certain excuses are starting to wear thin, like we have injuries etc. But that's no excuse for sending your team out to play in such a negative manner.

Are we really going to challenge for the league when Rafa shows such an outright negative streak?

It's fine in Europe playing away when it's a knockout over 2 legs, but in league play it pays off to attack and win the game. What's better 2 wins and a loss, or 1 Win and 2 draws?

What really worried me was his criticism of Gerrard after the derby, it was bizarre bordering on the obtuse. Playing with too much passion? This concerns me. I think to win the Premiership you have to have players who are completely and totally motivated to win it. It's a mentality, a desire. I'm not questioning Rafas desire to win it, or the players.

But can you play the game of football without passion, or any kind of atmosphere? I hate to bring up the self titled - so far up his own arse he could eat his own ****e - special one, but look at those title winning sides he had, yes he had countless millions to spend but the team spirit and bond he had with his players was an integral part of their success. I just don’t see Rafa doing this with our players, he seems too detached, I just can’t see how that can be a positive for us.

Where I give Rafa credit is that he’s not afraid to jettison players who clearly aren’t up to standards. That why I fail to understand when people say we shouldn't make a lot of changes in the January window. The likes of Pennant, Kuyt, Sissoko and Riise bring only mediocrity to the table, so how is selling and replacing them going to hurt us? Even if we only sold them we'd be better off because it's better to have a smaller squad with few mediocres than a larger squad with too many.

So while I do think Rafa needs to improve we do need better players. It’s not all down to him. By and large his signings have been a success.

I don’t want him to be sacked, far from it. But I do want him to be more progressive tactically in the Premier league. I really couldn’t give a **** about what he says. I want him to get us back to the top of the pile before we fawn over his legendary soundbytes.

You make a few good points Niall but it aint flawless

1-I think what RAFA meant about Gerrard is that he might get himself in trouble by being too passionate bordering aggressive. We all know the bitters will try anything to have him/other players sent off in the derby. So my take on it is that Rafa did not want SG to do a stupid thing and get sent off. Rafa was thinking ahead and it paid off, Leiva came on and changed the game for us.

2-Nothing wrong with having smaller squad with better quality but what happens if we get a few injuries..we're FOOKED nice and proper mate. He will get castrated for bringing a few youngsters who struggle then lose their confidence for the rest of the season. Sell one or two players but replace them with better ones. That is a better option.

3-I NEVER EVER WANNA SEE THAT PORTOGUESSE PRIMADONNA CNUTED SCRAWNY ANNOYING **** MAUREEN ANYHWERE NEAR OUR CLUB. How many times has slagged the club and rafa during his reign with the chavs.
I find your suggestion laughable almost desperate.

[friedk]

If you change your manager ever 4 or 5 seasons, you run the risk of going 17 years without a league title.

Thank **** that will never happen to Liverpool.

[reddragon]

Not only that coops, these "short-term, instant-gratification junkies" undermine the club by creating a climate of pressure around it and the players. Wish they would feck off with their 606 wank.

modern fans, eh?

[bazza76]

I'll be honest, I'm far from convinced by him.

Yes he's great in Europe, It's beyond debate.

But in the league he's still not convincing.

I see him starting a side against Blackburn recently with Kuyt up front on his own - which hasn't worked previously - our best player utilized out of position and the team sitting back and not attacking, until late in the game.

I wonder when instances like that above will cease to happen under Rafa, and I keep waiting.

Certain excuses are starting to wear thin, like we have injuries etc. But that's no excuse for sending your team out to play in such a negative manner.

Are we really going to challenge for the league when Rafa shows such an outright negative streak?

It's fine in Europe playing away when it's a knockout over 2 legs, but in league play it pays off to attack and win the game. What's better 2 wins and a loss, or 1 Win and 2 draws?

What really worried me was his criticism of Gerrard after the derby, it was bizarre bordering on the obtuse. Playing with too much passion? This concerns me. I think to win the Premiership you have to have players who are completely and totally motivated to win it. It's a mentality, a desire. I'm not questioning Rafas desire to win it, or the players.
I think what he ment was, Gerrard was not diciplined enough, he wanted someone to keep the game simple in the middle so he brought on Levia and gave him the instructions to do just that. It paid off and it was an inspired substitution.
But can you play the game of football without passion, or any kind of atmosphere? I hate to bring up the self titled - so far up his own arse he could eat his own ****e - special one, but look at those title winning sides he had, yes he had countless millions to spend but the team spirit and bond he had with his players was an integral part of their success. I just don’t see Rafa doing this with our players, he seems too detached, I just can’t see how that can be a positive for us.

Where I give Rafa credit is that he’s not afraid to jettison players who clearly aren’t up to standards. That why I fail to understand when people say we shouldn't make a lot of changes in the January window. The likes of Pennant, Kuyt, Sissoko and Riise bring only mediocrity to the table, so how is selling and replacing them going to hurt us? Even if we only sold them we'd be better off because it's better to have a smaller squad with few mediocres than a larger squad with too many.

So while I do think Rafa needs to improve we do need better players. It’s not all down to him. By and large his signings have been a success.

I don’t want him to be sacked, far from it. But I do want him to be more progressive tactically in the Premier league. I really couldn’t give a **** about what he says. I want him to get us back to the top of the pile before we fawn over his legendary soundbytes.

I don'tagree with the Gerrard bit as I highlighted above. I do agree with most of your post though, we do need to improve our league form obviously but in fairness to Rafa, away from home, we have been taking points, it is our home from this season that has costed us and it is not as if we don't go for the jugular at Anfield.

[Craig_H]

I'll be honest, I'm far from convinced by him.

Yes he's great in Europe, It's beyond debate.

But in the league he's still not convincing.

I see him starting a side against Blackburn recently with Kuyt up front on his own - which hasn't worked previously - our best player utilized out of position and the team sitting back and not attacking, until late in the game.

I wonder when instances like that above will cease to happen under Rafa, and I keep waiting.

Certain excuses are starting to wear thin, like we have injuries etc. But that's no excuse for sending your team out to play in such a negative manner.

Are we really going to challenge for the league when Rafa shows such an outright negative streak?

It's fine in Europe playing away when it's a knockout over 2 legs, but in league play it pays off to attack and win the game. What's better 2 wins and a loss, or 1 Win and 2 draws?

What really worried me was his criticism of Gerrard after the derby, it was bizarre bordering on the obtuse. Playing with too much passion? This concerns me. I think to win the Premiership you have to have players who are completely and totally motivated to win it. It's a mentality, a desire. I'm not questioning Rafas desire to win it, or the players.

But can you play the game of football without passion, or any kind of atmosphere? I hate to bring up the self titled - so far up his own arse he could eat his own ****e - special one, but look at those title winning sides he had, yes he had countless millions to spend but the team spirit and bond he had with his players was an integral part of their success. I just don’t see Rafa doing this with our players, he seems too detached, I just can’t see how that can be a positive for us.

Where I give Rafa credit is that he’s not afraid to jettison players who clearly aren’t up to standards. That why I fail to understand when people say we shouldn't make a lot of changes in the January window. The likes of Pennant, Kuyt, Sissoko and Riise bring only mediocrity to the table, so how is selling and replacing them going to hurt us? Even if we only sold them we'd be better off because it's better to have a smaller squad with few mediocres than a larger squad with too many.

So while I do think Rafa needs to improve we do need better players. It’s not all down to him. By and large his signings have been a success.

I don’t want him to be sacked, far from it. But I do want him to be more progressive tactically in the Premier league. I really couldn’t give a **** about what he says. I want him to get us back to the top of the pile before we fawn over his legendary soundbytes.

Superb post.

[El Jefecito]

I don'tagree with the Gerrard bit as I highlighted above. I do agree with most of your post though, we do need to improve our league form obviously but in fairness to Rafa, away from home, we have been taking points, it is our home from this season that has costed us and it is not as if we don't go for the jugular at Anfield.

I posted a while ago that I was really impressed w/an SG performance, where most others agreed he wasn't all that good. The reason for my ebulience was that he actually seemed to appreciate what Rafa wanted from a midfielder. He spent as much time bringing others into play as he did trying to win the game by himself. It's not a lot, but it's a paradigm shift for SG.

It's been obvious to me, that Lucas knows what Rafa wants, and has provided that immediately. I'm hoping Lucas' example has been enough for SG to be able to relate to the role that will make the TEAM successful. After all, it's pretty useless if SG bombs forward and there is no-one to support him. Rafa likes to move the team forward as a unit, and SG's standard approach doesn't allow that.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

You make a few good points Niall but it aint flawless

1-I think what RAFA meant about Gerrard is that he might get himself in trouble by being too passionate bordering aggressive. We all know the bitters will try anything to have him/other players sent off in the derby. So my take on it is that Rafa did not want SG to do a stupid thing and get sent off. Rafa was thinking ahead and it paid off, Leiva came on and changed the game for us.

2-Nothing wrong with having smaller squad with better quality but what happens if we get a few injuries..we're FOOKED nice and proper mate. He will get castrated for bringing a few youngsters who struggle then lose their confidence for the rest of the season. Sell one or two players but replace them with better ones. That is a better option.

3-I NEVER EVER WANNA SEE THAT PORTOGUESSE PRIMADONNA CNUTED SCRAWNY ANNOYING **** MAUREEN ANYHWERE NEAR OUR CLUB. How many times has slagged the club and rafa during his reign with the chavs.
I find your suggestion laughable almost desperate.

Rafa got that substitution correct. But his justification for it bothers me. If he had said "Lucas came on and won the pen that won us the game" nobody would've questioned it. But to say he withdrew Gerrard for "showing too much passion" makes no sense whatsoever. Say he was playing poorly, though there were worse who were left on, say it was tactical, but don't criticize a player for wanting, trying his best to win the match. It was a fatuous thing to say.

The scum won the league last year with a thin squad in certain positions. And really do those players I've listed do anything for us other than maintain the squad numbers? What do we get with Sissoko? Awful passing. Pennant? Over and under hitting crosses. Kuyt? Headless chicken routine and seal clapping the kop. Riise? Hoofing, and a few Casualty visits for people in the crowd who get hit by his mi**** rockets.

My point being is that it's wrong to keep these players because we might get a few injuries, rather than keeping them and letting them play and drag the quality and more importantly the results of the team down.

Re Mourinho I was merely pointing out an Attribute of Mourinhos management style which I think is more effective than Rafas, his man-management/bond with his players. I wasn't suggesting we sack Rafa and bring him in or anything.

[REDSCOUSER]

Rafa got that substitution correct. But his justification for it bothers me. If he had said "Lucas came on and won the pen that won us the game" nobody would've questioned it. But to say he withdrew Gerrard for "showing too much passion" makes no sense whatsoever. Say he was playing poorly, though there were worse who were left on, say it was tactical, but don't criticize a player for wanting, trying his best to win the match. It was a fatuous thing to say.

must be some sort of Spanish psychology that only rafa can explain then

The scum won the league last year with a thin squad in certain positions. And really do those players I've listed do anything for us other than maintain the squad numbers? What do we get with Sissoko? Awful passing. Pennant? Over and under hitting crosses. Kuyt? Headless chicken routine and seal clapping the kop. Riise? Hoofing, and a few Casualty visits for people in the crowd who get hit by his mi**** rockets.

I totally agree about Pennant(from the start i did not rate him), Riise(luckiest player to continue playing for us) and Sissoko(cash in while we can) but you know how i feel about Kuyt(still think he can do a sound job for our club).


Re Mourinho I was merely pointing out an Attribute of Mourinhos management style which I think is more effective than Rafas, his man-management/bond with his players. I wasn't suggesting we sack Rafa and bring him in or anything.

I misunderstood.

[bazza76]

I posted a while ago that I was really impressed w/an SG performance, where most others agreed he wasn't all that good. The reason for my ebulience was that he actually seemed to appreciate what Rafa wanted from a midfielder. He spent as much time bringing others into play as he did trying to win the game by himself. It's not a lot, but it's a paradigm shift for SG.

It's been obvious to me, that Lucas knows what Rafa wants, and has provided that immediately. I'm hoping Lucas' example has been enough for SG to be able to relate to the role that will make the TEAM successful. After all, it's pretty useless if SG bombs forward and there is no-one to support him. Rafa likes to move the team forward as a unit, and SG's standard approach doesn't allow that.

I think the last sentence is key in describing how Rafa operates.
But strangely enough, as we get to know Rafa for this trait, if you can call it that. H has been giving more licence to his midfield players in recent games. Both home games, but none the less, gerrard and Mascherano have both been seen getting very forward from the central midfield roles they have been operating from. A change in approach from Rafa perhaps?. Or was it just the circumstances that brought this licence to get forward about?. One thing I would have bet on, Mascher would not be getting forward like he has been, if he had been told not to.