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    A Few points + Player Ratings

    1. Zenden should start as a central midfielder if, and only if, 2 of Gerrard, Alonso and Sissoko are definitely unavailable. And then as the more defensive of a pair rather than the creative one.

    2. Daniel Agger will replace Hyypia sooner than anyone, possibly even Rafa, thought.

    3. We seem to have a squad full of squad players, players like Zenden, Aurelio, Warnock, Fowler, Pennant are ok if rotated in occasionally, 1 or 2 at a time. But if too many are played at the same time, they negatively effect the team as a whole. They can easily be passengers, who do nothing necessarily wrong, but dont add anything either. The team can carry one or maybe two of these at a time, relying on the quality of others to make the difference, but tonight for example, 4 played, and the team suffered big time, I didnt notice Zenden Pennant or Aurelio do much noteworthy, although Warnock was solid in the tackle as ever.

    4. Whilst I'm completely behind him, sometimes Rafa's will to WIN games is lacking for me. Today I never felt we were going for anything bar a draw. I knew Bellamy would come off for SG, it was a defensive substitution, although as I said to a mate on MSN, he could win it with a moment of brilliance (and nearly did). This doesnt take away the essential negativity of the decision. We played 2 banks of 4 for the whole game today, with a left back (part time possibly) at left midfield for added defensive strength, and 2 defensive midfielders. Given that Pennant appeared out of his depth, where was the service to the strikers coming from, the long ball? Liverpool's mentality has always been to win games, nothing else was acceptable.

    I realise this is only the first game of the champions league, and a point at the philips stadium isnt the worst result in the world, but it was the fact that we started the game with a view to a draw that disappointed me.

    Player ratings:

    Reina : 7/10 - One minor moment of miscommunication with Carra, but solid otherwise.

    Finnan: 6/10 - Solid if unspectacular, didnt get forward as much as he does at his best. One very fine interception inside the box.

    Warnock: 6/10 - See Finnan, provided a solid left side with Aurelio.

    Carra: 7/10 - Did everything that was required.

    Agger: 8/10 - There whenever he was needed, and distributed the ball well, one excellent challenge on the edge of the box.

    Pennant: 5/10 - Ineffective, poor passing in the final third, and runs rarely came to much. Shaky when defending as well, almost let them in a couple of times as well as selling Sissoko short several times.

    Sissoko: 6/10 - Not his best game, not his worst, offered little going forward though was as competitive as ever in the challenge.

    Zenden: 4/10 - Dont remember an instance of me being pleased with or happy at anything he did. Frequently annoyed at his passing and weakness in the challenge.

    Aurelio: 5/10 - Again, didnt do much of note, blazed over on the volley when he could have brought the ball down and kept a dangerous attack going.

    Kuyt: 8/10 - A willing runner and worker, good link up and hold up play and dangerous in and around the box. I expect him to become our first choice striker soon (if Rafa has a first choice)

    Bellamy: 7/10 - Dangerous, but service was lacking, would like to see him operate through the middle more, although presumably this will come when a more attacking left midfielder is present.

    Subs:

    Alonso: 6/10 - Still looks off the pace, didnt do anything wrong though.

    Gerrard: 7/10 - Not much time to make an impact, but nearly won us the game.

    Gonzalez: 6/10 - No real time to make an impact.

    #2
    I'll agree with that.

    Although I am inclined to give both Warnock and Finnan a 7.

    We defended really well today...
    "In fact I’m going to make a promise which will be welcomed by many. If there’s no finance secured by the opening day of the season, I’m going to hang up my keyboard and close KOPTALK down."

    Duncan Oldham, March 29th 2006

    Comment


      #3
      Zenden bugs the **** out of me. He runs around giving needless free-kicks away in an attempt to make it look like he's "working hard" and "getting his foot in". His passing is woeful and he offers us nothing in the middle of the park.

      Pennant was seriously poor tonight, especially in the 2nd half. I had my reservations about him (I remember nearly losing my mind in one 30+ page thread on him on KT) and I really hope he proves me wrong. So far though, so underwhelmed.

      Frustrating and slightly peculiar game tonight. Both teams seemed happy with the draw but given the other goalless draw it's a decent result, especially with some of our big players having been given a rest. It paid off for Rafa. We've technically now got a five game group with three of them at home.
      Thanks very much for being ‘This Mornings’ Farmer’

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by ShaggyAlonso
        Zenden bugs the **** out of me. He runs around giving needless free-kicks away in an attempt to make it look like he's "working hard" and "getting his foot in". His passing is woeful and he offers us nothing in the middle of the park.


        We really miss Hamann in my opinion...
        "In fact I’m going to make a promise which will be welcomed by many. If there’s no finance secured by the opening day of the season, I’m going to hang up my keyboard and close KOPTALK down."

        Duncan Oldham, March 29th 2006

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by ShaggyAlonso

          Frustrating and slightly peculiar game tonight. Both teams seemed happy with the draw but given the other goalless draw it's a decent result, especially with some of our big players having been given a rest. It paid off for Rafa. We've technically now got a five game group with three of them at home.
          Hadnt considered this aspect. As I said, wasnt the result that bugged me, more the fact that a draw seemed to be the maximum we were aiming for, with a win a bonus.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by univofchicago


            We really miss Hamann in my opinion...
            Yes, without doubt. Hamann or Zenden for the same price?? Not even a choice.

            Comment


              #7
              [QUOTE=ShaggyAlonso]Zenden bugs the **** out of me. He runs around giving needless free-kicks away in an attempt to make it look like he's "working hard" and "getting his foot in". His passing is woeful and he offers us nothing in the middle of the park./QUOTE]

              which in turn means Sissoko dosnt know whether to attack or defend. Few times we where caught when both players where at the wrong end of the field. Saying that he Sissoko still had a good game.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by univofchicago


                We really miss Hamann in my opinion...
                Dont rule out a U-turn!! I wish think your right we do need an old head there
                _____________________________________

                Weak willed, Wank or do they have a masterplan?

                Think we have the answer..Slot!!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by univofchicago


                  We really miss Hamann in my opinion...
                  Yes Rafa made a cu/nt of that decision. No doubt about it.

                  None of the new summer signings have done anything to suggest they are LFC quality so far apart from Kuyt.

                  Agger is the real deal though. Great signing.
                  I hate Polanski

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Agreed that Zenden's lack of midfield nous leaves Sissoko exposed, although I also thought Momo's passing was back to its shoddy worst again tonight.

                    Aurelio is beginning to really concern me and I thought Bellamy was very average once again.
                    Thanks very much for being ‘This Mornings’ Farmer’

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by ShaggyAlonso
                      Agreed that Zenden's lack of midfield nous leaves Sissoko exposed, although I also thought Momo's passing was back to its shoddy worst again tonight.

                      Aurelio is beginning to really concern me and I thought Bellamy was very average once again.

                      Aurelio wasnt in the game at all tonight, surprised it took so long for Rafa to take him off. Garcia or Gonzalez should have been on far earlier to at least give them a chance to get into the game.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Yeah, I've not yet seen anything from Aurelio yet to make me sit back and think 'wow'. Pennant and Bellamy have at least shown glimpses. Bellamy will make a success of himself I feel, not so sure about Jermaine.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Milan_Milan
                          1. Zenden should start as a central midfielder if, and only if, 2 of Gerrard, Alonso and Sissoko are definitely unavailable. And then as the more defensive of a pair rather than the creative one.

                          2. Daniel Agger will replace Hyypia sooner than anyone, possibly even Rafa, thought.

                          3. We seem to have a squad full of squad players, players like Zenden, Aurelio, Warnock, Fowler, Pennant are ok if rotated in occasionally, 1 or 2 at a time. But if too many are played at the same time, they negatively effect the team as a whole. They can easily be passengers, who do nothing necessarily wrong, but dont add anything either. The team can carry one or maybe two of these at a time, relying on the quality of others to make the difference, but tonight for example, 4 played, and the team suffered big time, I didnt notice Zenden Pennant or Aurelio do much noteworthy, although Warnock was solid in the tackle as ever.

                          4. Whilst I'm completely behind him, sometimes Rafa's will to WIN games is lacking for me. Today I never felt we were going for anything bar a draw. I knew Bellamy would come off for SG, it was a defensive substitution, although as I said to a mate on MSN, he could win it with a moment of brilliance (and nearly did). This doesnt take away the essential negativity of the decision. We played 2 banks of 4 for the whole game today, with a left back (part time possibly) at left midfield for added defensive strength, and 2 defensive midfielders. Given that Pennant appeared out of his depth, where was the service to the strikers coming from, the long ball? Liverpool's mentality has always been to win games, nothing else was acceptable.

                          I realise this is only the first game of the champions league, and a point at the philips stadium isnt the worst result in the world, but it was the fact that we started the game with a view to a draw that disappointed me.

                          Player ratings:

                          Reina : 7/10 - One minor moment of miscommunication with Carra, but solid otherwise.

                          Finnan: 6/10 - Solid if unspectacular, didnt get forward as much as he does at his best. One very fine interception inside the box.

                          Warnock: 6/10 - See Finnan, provided a solid left side with Aurelio.

                          Carra: 7/10 - Did everything that was required.

                          Agger: 8/10 - There whenever he was needed, and distributed the ball well, one excellent challenge on the edge of the box.

                          Pennant: 5/10 - Ineffective, poor passing in the final third, and runs rarely came to much. Shaky when defending as well, almost let them in a couple of times as well as selling Sissoko short several times.

                          Sissoko: 6/10 - Not his best game, not his worst, offered little going forward though was as competitive as ever in the challenge.

                          Zenden: 4/10 - Dont remember an instance of me being pleased with or happy at anything he did. Frequently annoyed at his passing and weakness in the challenge.

                          Aurelio: 5/10 - Again, didnt do much of note, blazed over on the volley when he could have brought the ball down and kept a dangerous attack going.

                          Kuyt: 8/10 - A willing runner and worker, good link up and hold up play and dangerous in and around the box. I expect him to become our first choice striker soon (if Rafa has a first choice)

                          Bellamy: 7/10 - Dangerous, but service was lacking, would like to see him operate through the middle more, although presumably this will come when a more attacking left midfielder is present.

                          Subs:

                          Alonso: 6/10 - Still looks off the pace, didnt do anything wrong though.

                          Gerrard: 7/10 - Not much time to make an impact, but nearly won us the game.

                          Gonzalez: 6/10 - No real time to make an impact.

                          Great post and agree with most apart from point 1. It should just read Zenden should never start as a central midfielder, leftmidfielder or any sort of midfielder and should be only used as sub if we are 3-0 up and there are 5minutes left.

                          Pennant really looked completely uninterested tonight. We could have won this easily with more emphasis on attack....but Rafa sees the big picture.....

                          I will reserve my judgement until we stuff the chavscum i shall then herald rafa as a tactical genius
                          _____________________________________

                          Weak willed, Wank or do they have a masterplan?

                          Think we have the answer..Slot!!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Milan_Milan
                            Yeah, I've not yet seen anything from Aurelio yet to make me sit back and think 'wow'. Pennant and Bellamy have at least shown glimpses. Bellamy will make a success of himself I feel, not so sure about Jermaine.
                            we'll he's had two decent free kick attempts

                            I think Bellamy will come good, just needs to get a good partnetship going upfront.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I think if we are rating players and the match then we also have to rate Rafa.

                              I think Rafa got it wrong tonight,big time.
                              While an away win in Europe is always a good result,you also have to win the games that are there for the taking.

                              PSV are not a great side and we could have easliy won if the right players were on from the start or longer.

                              My main gripe with the team tonight are the midfield and Rafa's subs.
                              Neither Momo or Zenden made any kind of deep run into the box to support the front two.
                              If Xabi and Gerard were on we would have seen both Gerard berake into the box and our wide players recieving more service.

                              This is where I think Pennant is getting a bad rap,With Gerard and Xabi playing we would have controled the midfield and our wingers would have had more of a forward roll.

                              Instead both Aurelio and Pennant had to come back and cover in the center far too often as posession was given away.

                              Up front and at the back we were fine,a few slips and blips but they happen in every game.

                              We can't keep having one eye on the next game,if thats what happened tonight, and need to play our best team from the start.
                              Last edited by KK07; 12-09-06, 10:25 PM.

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