Rafa backs down?

[Red_hot]

He started it!

Sorry though, my bad.

Useful demonstration of how hostile and cliquey (not 'the clique', just cliquey in the traditional sense of the word ) this forum can be to relative strangers.

Lots of random **** threads, I comment on what appears to be the worst wondering why the hell it's survived, and it's the only worthwhile thread

Oh don't start going on about all this ****e again. Look, you made your point, Shaggy made his. The thread is staying and it turns out Jonesie was right. Can we not just leave it there instead of trying to get one up on people all the time? It's really not that big a deal.

[RoadEnd]

Or use this forum.

Good idea.

Can someone set up a new thread?

[Slim]

Oh good....all the mud flung at Jonesie has been removed, has it? Good.

A few folk must feel a bit daft now.

[disco]

Oh don't start going on about all this ****e again. Look, you made your point, Shaggy made his. The thread is staying and it turns out Jonesie was right. Can we not just leave it there instead of trying to get one up on people all the time? It's really not that big a deal.

Fine by me.

(I'll ignore the first sentence)

[fah-q]

I still wonder why Parry is still here. He is only doing the job Rafa should do, very strange.

We would save some money if we sacked him.

Except we'd have to pay him off

[AFII]

Good idea.

Can someone set up a new thread?

Maybe Rashid can open it, just to be safe to see what happens with it. No one will care if he is missing.

[KK07]

Well stop bickering about stupid things then!!!

That post is not gonna help things!

[AFII]

Except we'd have to pay him off

Na, he loves LFC, he would never do that to the club.

[RedWolverine]

Paul Tomkins is now getting in on the act: -

this is the open letter Tomkins wrote to G+H


An Open Letter to George Gillett and Tom Hicks, 26.11.07

Dear George and Tom,

I'd just like to express how depressed and upset I am at the continuing uncertainty surrounding the club, and say that I'd love to hear some reassurances that the differences will be settled ASAP - and that Rafa Benítez has your full support and backing.

While I do think there are two sides to any story, and I appreciate the difficulties of running any club (balancing the books, keeping fans happy, and dealing with opinionated, strong-minded individuals), what I've heard these past few days leads me increasingly to believe you might be missing the point regarding football transfers, and in so doing, undermining the manager, whether you meant to or not.

You may not have realised, perhaps through cultural differences, that telling a manager of an English football team to 'just coach the side' is a kind of insult.

I am not about to make accusations, or go on some personal tirade against you both. Particularly with a welter of hearsay and little actual hard evidence (as yet) fuelling the media frenzy. Clearly all is not well, but at the same time, is it all 'lost'?

I just want to know that the club I love is in safe hands; I feel that is the case on the pitch, but that's something relatively easy to assess; assessing how a club is being run behind the scenes from our side of the fence is much more difficult, because we don't get to see what happens, and only hear snippets of information which is often wrapped up in rumour and hearsay.

I felt Rafa's tone after the Newcastle game was fairly conciliatory, in saying you had the best interests of the club at heart, and that as you were new you needed time to settle into the roles, like he'd expect with a new player. You are no strangers to running sports teams, but you cannot match Rafa's knowledge when it comes to football. Few men can. In this sense, you are the rookies, and you would surely acknowledge that.

And if it is indeed true that you don't (yet) fully understand how the transfer system in Europe works, then it seems to me that this needs to be remedied as soon as possible. This is a fundamental basic of the game. I would like to think it's a misunderstanding, and that there's been some transatlantic miscommunication. I hope I'm not being naive in holding out some hope that this is the case.

Also, I understood that Foster Gillett was going to be acting as your eyes, ears and the in-house go-between in Liverpool, but reports suggest that he is not in place?

For the record, I can't think of one successful English club who has chopped and changed its managers, and which hasn't given the man in charge of the team full control. A club like Newcastle has become a laughing stock because of this short-sighted approach. Continuity and stability are paramount to football success.

There have been some woeful attempts at Director of Football-type affairs, and the only time I know that this type of arrangement has worked was when David Dein bought players at Arsenal, but * crucially * at Arsene Wenger's behest.

Across North London, Spurs * whose net spend this summer was greater than Liverpool's (as was Manchester United and Manchester City's) * were spectacularly undone by the appointment of a Technical Director whose views differed from the manager's. Too many cooks...

I understand a natural fear you might have - that of sensing the head of the team possesses too much power - but English football works this way. You need one man with one vision to hold the wheel and steer the ship; not rule by committee. And he needs to be so much more than just a coach.

And any manager worth his salt a) will be wary of working for a club that does not give him full power in all football matters, and b) will likely be as difficult a character as Benítez, if not more so.

Top managers are not easy men to work with. Ferguson, Mourinho, Shankly ** none made life easy for the board, and none took kindly to being told what to do, but each delivered the goods in the end. Arsene Wenger is the same, although he was able to build his Arsenal empire with the full backing of David Dein. Had he been told otherwise, he would not have hung around.

Stability is key for any successful club. Rafa Benítez is doing far, far, far better at this stage of his tenure than Alex Ferguson was at United. You cannot imagine how much better he is doing. Ferguson failed to win a trophy until the end of his 4th season, and his average league position after five seasons was a woeful 9th. His finishes were 11th, 13th, 2nd, 13th and 6th. Compare this with 5th, 3rd, 3rd, plus an FA Cup and two Champions League Finals, one of which was so famously won, and you can see the chasm.

Replacing Rafa now, when he has assembled his best squad and had his best league start, really would make no sense to me * win the game in hand and the Reds would be 2nd, and still unbeaten. The team is set up to work in his methods. The players fit his mould. And from what I can tell, they have the utmost respect for him. This is crucial.

And while I do think there are perhaps a handful of managers in football who are in the same league as Rafa, I do not think their methods are necessarily suited to Liverpool FC, while I definitely don't think they could make as much of this particular squad as Rafa can. They would want to bring in their own new players, which will be costly, and introduce new systems, which will put things back.

In terms of money spent, Benítez's overall transfer record is outstanding. All managers make mistakes, but most of his have been cheap ones who were quickly traded. What he has got for his money has been top-rate. The squads of United and Chelsea cost at least twice as much as Liverpool's, and are full of £15-£30m players, yet is there really much of a gap in class? Meanwhile, Arsenal are making use of young players they procured many years ago.

Fan opinion is almost exclusively siding with Rafa. While there has also been some unhelpful, xenophobic anti-American rhetoric, which just clouds the issue, you need to understand how unpopular this situation is making you amongst the Anfield faithful, and how high spirits are running.

When you took over the club there was a surprising amount of goodwill. I don't mean surprising in that I felt at the time that you deserved anything less, but surprising in that any new owners could perhaps have expected a rougher ride. As fans it seems our patience had been worn down with almost three years without a solution to the investment issue, and a series of desperately unsuitable suitors chancing their arms. Compared with Thaksin Shinawatra, you seemed a good bet.

Maybe there are very valid reasons, and I will try to keep as open a mind as possible, but I am struggling to know why the matter cannot be discussed and an attempt at resolving it made before the 16th December.

I have to admit that such a delay worries me. The issues at hand * be it laying the foundations for transfers well ahead of the window (as all teams do), or repairing the relationship with Rafa * seem rather too pressing for that. I don't see how it can wait.

If failure to get through the league stage of the Champions League is crucial to the financial planning for the transfer window, I can understand that part of your thinking. On the other hand, if it is crucial as to whether or not Benítez is fired, I cannot understand that for one minute. Before Rafa was here, we weren't even qualifying for the competition, let alone reaching two finals.

Rafa spoke out after Athens, but you seemed to understand his frustrations. You went on to help the club secure some fantastic players over the summer, although the net spend - while healthy - was not remarkable. One further £7m target * Gabriel Heinze * was missed very late in the day, so it's clear from the summer that such a defender was needed, while any manager will always be assessing his squad as to how he can strengthen it.

Having spent the past three years studiously observing Rafa's methods, I've come to realise just how good he is. I believe he is a football visionary, and what he is building at Liverpool will be something really special.

For instance, it's now seven months since we conceded a goal from a corner or free-kick delivered into the box (excluding the 'reserve' team fielded in the Carling Cup). Zonal marking was widely mocked in 2004, and now we see other teams conceding lame goals with man-to-man marking every week. It's just one area where Rafa made a controversial change, stuck with it, and now is reaping the rewards.

My instincts tell me that you are too smart to dispense with a man like Rafa, and that for all the tension you do really respect him. My instincts tell me you have too much to lose, both in terms of talent, squad morale, financial resources and fan backing, by making such a drastic move * if, indeed, that is what you are considering.

If one good thing has come of this, it's that it's made the fans unite behind the manager and his team. The fear of losing Rafa, which may be just paper talk but all the same seems very real, has made many realise just what it is we have to be grateful for.

So, please reassure me, and all other nervous Reds, that it's all one big (unfortunate) misunderstanding, and that yourselves, Rick Parry and Rafa can get together for a group hug sooner rather than later. I'll even buy the coffee and donuts.

Yours faithfully,

PAUL TOMKINS

[Kaip]

So is everyone happy now then

[disco]

I like Tomkins, but he could be a bit more concise

[PTP]

Kaladze Behind the Crisis

From the Echo - looks like Rafa wanted Kaladze but is going to fall throught and that is why he has seen his arse

Kahka Kaladze transfer row behind a crisis

Nov 26 2007

EXCLUSIVE by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo


WHEN Kahka Kaladze helped AC Milan topple Liverpool in last May’s Champions League final, little did he know that six months later he could end up playing an unwitting role in Rafa Benitez’s potential downfall.

The Georgian defender might have frustrated Benitez in Athens but to nothing like the same extent as the failure to sign him has infuriated the Liverpool boss in the last week.

Benitez wanted to snap Kaladze up to provide defensive cover for Jamie Carragher, Daniel Agger and Sami Hyypia but when Tom Hicks and George Gillett refused to even discuss potential transfers before December 16, the chance to sign him was lost and the Reds boss reacted angrily.

Having been ordered to concentrate on “coaching and training”, Benitez saw this as evidence that Liverpool’s American owners were not prepared to back him in the transfer market and, brimming with indignation, used a Melwood press conference to let the world know that all was not well at Anfield.

Despite being unceremoniously slapped down and told to “quit talking” by Dallas-based Tom Hicks following his outburst, Benitez refused to give any ground in the aftermath of Saturday’s resounding 3-0 win at Newcastle.


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He claimed the Americans had not yet had time to develop an understanding of the intricacies of the transfer window – and that the club needed to conduct business as promptly as possible.

The battle lines had been drawn and there was precious little sign of either side backing down from the fight.

But today, the mood music coming from Benitez’s direction changed.

Gone today is the outspoken criticism of the club hierarchy and the seemingly kamikaze confrontational approach which had the bookmakers frantically cutting their odds on him being the next Premiership manager to be ousted.

Instead, the language has a more conciliatory tone as an olive branch is held out to Hicks and George Gillett and, by way of reciprocation, sources close to the Americans have dismissed talk that they have already decided to sack the manager at such a crucial stage of the season.

Whether this means Benitez will remain in position for too much longer is another matter entirely.

His recent outbursts have upset the Americans greatly and they came at a time when they were privately questioning his ability to lead Liverpool to the title.

Watching from afar, they have been disappointed by the way their most recent sporting acquisition has struggled in this season’s Champions League and the lead Arsenal have built up over them in the Premiership.

Even an unbeaten run in the league has failed to overly impress them, so Benitez was on the thinnest of ice when he decided to take them on over transfer strategy.

Today, that ice remains just as thin but at least Benitez has given himself a chance of not falling through it by making a tactical withdrawal from battle and intimating that he is now prepared to put his misgivings over the club’s transfer strategy to one side until that all-important meeting on December 16.

Although his future remains open to question, what seems apparent is Benitez’s commitment to the club and his desire for it to be successful.

As those closest to the manager have intimated, it is this hunger and desire to be the best that makes the Spaniard so frustrated when things do not go as he would expect them to.

With Daniel Agger currently injured and Sami Hyypia entering the twilight of his career, the proposed acquisition of 29-year-old Kaladze for a fee of around £4m was seen as crucial to his ongoing squad building.

But with transfer talk banned at Anfield until mid-December that deal died a lingering death last week and Benitez was left with nothing to console him but a swift return to the drawing board.

or a manager whose entire transfer philosophy is built on getting deals done quickly to save money, stopping latecomers from snaring his targets in the process, this was too much to bear, hence his coded attack on the club’s owners that he would now concentrate only on coaching as they had ordered him to.

But Benitez it seems recognises that, like politics, football is all about the art of the possible and the fact that the Americans are not going to change policy to suit him means, in the short term at least, he must either accept their authority and way of doing things – or face the sack.

He could carry on fighting what is a losing battle with a pair of all powerful, American multi-millionaires – or keep his head down until they finally reveal their hand in a couple of weeks time.

The fact that he now seems to have taken the latter course suggests his desire to remain at a club he loves is stronger than any selfish hunger for battle.

Significantly, Benitez will also be aware that he has the backing of the club’s fans, as evidenced by the continued chanting of his name at Newcastle on Saturday and the outpouring of support on internet forums in the wake of a report that his time as Liverpool manager is about to come to an abrupt and undignified end.

But the inescapable fact is it could all be too little too late and the man who has taken Liverpool to two European Cup finals in three years – winning one in the most spectacular fashion possible and narrowly losing the other – with FA Cup glory sandwiched in between, could soon be looking for another job.


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The statement released by Tom Hicks yesterday afternoon stopped a long way short of saying Benitez has the backing of the club’s owners and there has been no official public denial from either co-owner that the Spaniard is heading for the Anfield exit door.

Unbeaten in the Premiership, with their Champions League fate still in their own hands and a squad of players which is the envy of most clubs in Europe, it says everything about how badly the relationship between Benitez and the American owners has broken down that they could even consider giving him the sack.

Whether the fans will accept this situation is another matter entirely.

Their devotion to Benitez and his love for them means they share a strong bond and it is entirely possible there will be a show of support for the Spaniard at the crunch game with Porto at Anfield on Wednesday night.

Most supporters simply cannot understand how the manager who delivered Liverpool’s fifth European Cup just two seasons ago and took them to the brink of another one last May can now be fighting for his managerial life, especially when there have been no real indications of malaise since then.

At St James’ Park on Saturday, the fans chanted the manager’s name time and time again.

So, as understandably affronted as they are, if Tom Hicks and George Gillett are about to load the gun that will ultimately fire Rafa Benitez, it looks like they may have to take on the Anfield crowd first.

As so many have found to their cost on a European night, that is easier said than done.

[Shaggy]

Shameful. And from a mod too. Keep up Mike

[Jayesh87]

Now you can merge your own thread boss

[Craig_H]

Shameful. And from a mod too. Keep up Mike