Cowboy-boot messiahs show their hand

[Mattshark]

I doubt that Gillett or Hicks know the difference between sacking a very popular football manager and sacking a coach for a MLB/NHL/NBA/NFL team.

In the US it's a part of the business and a team can change coach two, three times a season.

I think that is the problem.

More short term thinking in the US.

Sorry but that is bollocks.

[Dhav]

Do you reckon Guillem got paid to appear on that webcast?

Do you think they'd have had him on if he didn't have something new to say about the Benitez situation?

See how easy it is to make assumptions and accusations without any foundation?

No doubt Balague is paid to appear on the podcast, but he is also on it every week I think and so wasn't there simply to say something new about the Benitez situation.

I've found that, despite being very articulate and having the ability to make his stories sound like 100% accurate inside info, Balague gets very little right.

I agree, he has a way of talking that makes him sound like an authority, yet he gets very little right. Incidentally I do remember him getting one thing right - I remember him expressing surprise that we were linked with Morientes as in his opinion he wouldn't fit into the Premiership.

But on this matter he wasn't stating opinion, he expressed it as fact that Hicks had been speaking to the media tipping them off that Rafa was to be sacked, ie he didnt give the impression he got it from a secondary source. So either he's lying or being deliberately misleading, ie acting with no integrity.

Either way, i know what Niall is saying and he has a point, we are just buying into speculation at the mo - nothing is concrete and transparent and therefore we are jumping to conclusions somewhat without knowing the full facts. This is of course true. But IMO there wouldn't be such intense speculation, these stories would not have snowballed so much if there was nothing to them. I feel for them to be so intense someone within the club must be tipping the media off. And if the speculation was just that, and grossly exaggerrated, why has the club not sought to release an unequivocal statement that would kill it all stone dead?

[desertscouser]

If you look at the set up of the club now then G&H have now made the same set up at LFC as they have in the NHL for example, if you believe that Parry is now doing the buying and selling bit.

Owner - General Manager - Coach. The GM is doing all the buying and selling of players.

The same set up as Spurs for example.

G&H must change that and remove the GM, in this case Parry, or it will never work.

So Ramos at Spurs won't be responsible for buying and selling players? Hmmmm....

[Kilteragh]

The whole thing is getting SENSATIONALISED to be honest. Yes there are disagreements bewteen the owners and Rafa but I strongly feel the media is making it more than what it is. Same with the money laundering situation Harry Redknapp is in.

You have it right my friend. The truth is nobody honestly knows what's going on in the background and the tabloids are having a field day making up **** that nobody is refuting.

The dodgy conclusions and generalisations contained in this article make it the greatest heap of **** I have read recently.

[Dhav]

Yes, it's extremely likely that the media have sensationalised it, but would the media have run with it if there was no underlying issue/story/problem behind it?

[bazza76]

Quite correct sir

Their's only a handfull of Coaches out there that could do the job we need doing, and Rafa IS one of them, ffs, the man inherited a team of mostly dead beats and still managed to turn them into bloody hero's(remember Instanbul) so, slowly but surely he's got/getting the Squad he needs to take us that one step to mightyness, and with one or two more quality signings to the squad, we'll see us back up their at the summit of where we brlong, and that, is where i beleive Rafa can take us

So G and H take great note, the Club need Rafa, the Fans Want Rafa and a host of top Clubs would want Rafa but, as it stands, WE'VE got Rafa so, pleeeeeeeeeeeease don't let him slip away

One thing is for sure.
These Yanks need a crash course in what Liverpool is really all about. Sacking Rafa over his comments would be unacceptable.
However, I can't help thinking that Rafa should have kept his comments to himself, you just know the yannks were waiting for him to do it again after his Athens outburst.

[AFII]

Sorry but that is bollocks.

No, it isn't.

A month or so before the playoffs they do a lot of transfers, many of them very short term, to build the playoff team they want.

Another difference is that you can sign players until the transfer deadline, no transfer windows, so you don't need to act as fast in the transfer market as you do in football.

More short time thinking compared to Europe.

You build a team more for one season a time in the US than you do in Europe.

[desertscouser]

No doubt that Niall makes some good points but I still think there's a major problem here between the owners and Rafa. It's just a gut feeling.

I would say this though...for 12 months it was obvious to the majority of us the Maureen was eventually going to get sacked by Roman yet all my Chelsea fan mates were saying that it was media bull sh!t and sensationalism.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens over the next few months.

[Mattshark]

No, it isn't.

A month or so before the playoffs they do a lot of transfers, many of them very short term, to build the playoff team they want.

Another difference is that you can sign players until the transfer deadline, no transfer windows, so you don't need to act as fast in the transfer market as you do in football.

More short time thinking compared to Europe.

You build a team more for one season a time in the US than you do in Europe.

Some teams do but changing manager ofter is not a common occurance except in failing teams, look at the Yankees, the Colts, the Braves, the Pats, teams that built on consistancy and a core group of players.
The two transfer window system is also relatively new.

[Kilteragh]

Yes, it's extremely likely that the media have sensationalised it, but would the media have run with it if there was no underlying issue/story/problem behind it?

Of course they would. Most tabloid "journalism" is based on complete fabrication. I'm not saying there is no problem but nobody knows the extent of it and speculation is becoming "fact" and polarising supporters.

[Sir Bob]

No doubt that Niall makes some good points but I still think there's a major problem here between the owners and Rafa. It's just a gut feeling.

I would say this though...for 12 months it was obvious to the majority of us the Maureen was eventually going to get sacked by Roman yet all my Chelsea fan mates were saying that it was media bull sh!t and sensationalism.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens over the next few months.

The similarities with Chelsea/Mourinho are striking. A talented, successful and well loved manager doing battle with an owner who quite frankly doesn't know his footballing arse from his footballing elbow.

I mean thats just what we need at LFC isn't it, Parry, G&H dealing with t/fers whilst Rafa has little input. Hmmm...sounds like a recipe for success.

If we are to challenge Man U & Arsenal in the long term we need Rafa to have total control in all footballing matters as Wenger & Fergie. Anything else and we continually be playing 2nd fiddle to them

[Dhav]

No doubt that Niall makes some good points but I still think there's a major problem here between the owners and Rafa. It's just a gut feeling.

I would say this though...for 12 months it was obvious to the majority of us the Maureen was eventually going to get sacked by Roman yet all my Chelsea fan mates were saying that it was media bull sh!t and sensationalism.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens over the next few months.

I agree with this. At the end of the day, how much of this type of intense media speculation is completely baseless or completely inaccurate? How many managers have had this kind of speculation about their jobs and then managed to hold onto them in the medium-to-long term? Very few I would suggest.

Like I've said before, if there were no fundamental disagreements between Rafa and the owners, and Rafa's job is indeed safe, why have the owners not released a statement to that effect to clear up this unhelpful and distracting speculation once and for all?

[Dhav]

Of course they would. Most tabloid "journalism" is based on complete fabrication. I'm not saying there is no problem but nobody knows the extent of it and speculation is becoming "fact" and polarising supporters.

Does that explain why so many different media outlets are running the same story? Or are they all colluding to create this story and make it snowball? I'm not convinced. I don't believe the old adage "no smoke without fire" is necessarily always true, but when there is so much smoke as there is here it's enough to make you think there is a flame at its source.

The similarities with Chelsea/Mourinho are striking. A talented, successful and well loved manager doing battle with an owner who quite frankly doesn't know his footballing arse from his footballing elbow.

I mean thats just what we need at LFC isn't it, Parry, G&H dealing with t/fers whilst Rafa has little input. Hmmm...sounds like a recipe for success.

If we are to challenge Man U & Arsenal in the long term we need Rafa to have total control in all footballing matters as Wenger & Fergie. Anything else and we continually be playing 2nd fiddle to them

Hear ****ing hear. It's ridiculous that someone as successful as Rafa is having his judgment questioned and responsibilities stripped away from him to the extent that he is going begging cap in hand to stay on, even if it is just as head coach with no input in beyond that whatsoever (if you believe what you read). Like you say, would never have happened at Arse and Man U, and that's why they have a record of medium-to-long term success and not short term success like the Chavs.

[dww]

The similarities with Chelsea/Mourinho are striking. A talented, successful and well loved manager doing battle with an owner who quite frankly doesn't know his footballing arse from his footballing elbow.

I mean thats just what we need at LFC isn't it, Parry, G&H dealing with t/fers whilst Rafa has little input. Hmmm...sounds like a recipe for success.

I think there is something a little unfair in that - it is clear that Abramovich has recruited well in Grant and before him Arneson which allowed him to change his manager with relatively little disruption and get his team playing the sort of football he wanted.

There are definitely similarities in the situations but I think drawing direct parallels is unhelpful.

Basically we know nothing and will all probably pick our reaction based on our natural inclination to pessimism or optimism and pre-existing views of Rafa and our new owners.

I also think it is too simplistic to say that G&H don't want Rafa involved in transfers. I think it more likely they want the footballing and financial sides of these transactions to be handled separately which is far from unreasonable IMO. In the summer we basically got all of the targets which Rafa wanted and were actually available as far as anyone can see. There has been no indication that they want to insert a director of football who dictates player recruitment in a footballing sense.

It is obvious that there are/have been serious problems but how anyone can believe they have a genuine insight into how long term the consequences of this is beats me.

[Kilteragh]

I agree with this. At the end of the day, how much of this type of intense media speculation is completely baseless or completely inaccurate? How many managers have had this kind of speculation about their jobs and then managed to hold onto them in the medium-to-long term? Very few I would suggest.

Like I've said before, if there were no fundamental disagreements between Rafa and the owners, and Rafa's job is indeed safe, why have the owners not released a statement to that effect to clear up this unhelpful and distracting speculation once and for all?

I'll think you'll find mate that most people don't respond to tabloid bull****. It would end up being a full time job for some people.

Tabloids don't sell papers by printing the boring truth. They sensationalise, exaggerate and generalise and by doing this they can either be eventually proven right or give themselves an out when they are totally off the mark. Don't get sucked in.

Look at the amount of times they print "You read it here first" articles referring to claims they made weeks or months earlier that turn out to be true.

If you take enough shots you will probably eventually score a goal. That's the theory they work on.