Cowboy-boot messiahs show their hand

[Dhav]

I'm not sure that it has completely backfired. Look at Rafa's recent statements - all much more conciliatory. It is certainly true that it has united the fans - maybe thats what they intended and they are simply much more intelligent than any of us believed

Perhaps, if you accept that they never intended to sack Rafa or were at least reluctant to do so, then it is fair to say they have been successful in reining him in.

As for your second point re them being more intelligent than we think, you know they're American right?

[Armchairkopite]

Those Americans should get a bitter welcome if they don't arrive over here until the Manc game.

[Dhav]

Those Americans should get a bitter welcome if they don't arrive over here until the Manc game.

At the end of the day, I know we need to focus on winning matches but by waiting until the Manc game is this not just allowing the malaise to fester and the situation to get worse and the speculation to intensify? Their statement that team requirements will be reviewed after 16 Dec depending on your interpretation could include the possibility of sacking the manager. Puts a lot of pressure on the team. With key, must-win games coming up, and the possibility that the manager could be sacked if we dont win key games v Marseille and Scum, is this not just adding to the already intense pressure? Now if I was a conspiracy theorist I might suggest it was a deliberate ploy.

[Armchairkopite]

I agree 100% mate, why on earth haven't the Americans made a move? Because they're waiting to strike imo. I still believe we need to send an intense message to these two ****s. I'm just not sure how we can do it at the moment, we need to scare them somehow.

[Dhav]

I agree 100% mate, why on earth haven't the Americans made a move? Because they're waiting to strike imo. I still believe we need to send an intense message to these two ****s. I'm just not sure how we can do it at the moment, we need to scare them somehow.

I'm with you mate. Something does not sit right with me about this whole thing. The intentions of the Americans, the silence of Parry etc. I think we need to keep the pro-Rafa momentum going, regardless of results. Every game we play from now on needs to be a Rafa appreciation event. We need to show them in no uncertain terms that it's our club, and the dismissal of Rafa will not be accepted.

[Skillz]

I'm with you mate. Something does not sit right with me about this whole thing. The intentions of the Americans, the silence of Parry etc. I think we need to keep the pro-Rafa momentum going, regardless of results. Every game we play from now on needs to be a Rafa appreciation event. We need to show them in no uncertain terms that it's our club, and the dismissal of Rafa will not be accepted.

I was going to start a thread about this but seeing as it is being discussed here I won't bother.

Rafa has forced their hand, almost. If we win our next 3 games, inparticular Marseille, G&H will have to make a move if they want to turn up at Anfield for the Manc game. Rafa has already started placating them but not fully, just like they have not sacked him.

There is a stand off at the moment and I hope all matchgoing supporters () continue their support of Rafa and the team cos if we win and qualify Gillett and Hicks will have to show considerable support to Rafa before the Manc game if they want to ENTER THEIR GROUND.

In fact it will be Rafa we listen to before that game and what he tells us will decide whether they will be welcomed. TREAD CAREFULLY MESSERS HICKS AND GILLETT.

TBH I feel there will be many things that happen before then that could change the situation

[thekop]

One thing is for sure.
These Yanks need a crash course in what Liverpool is really all about. Sacking Rafa over his comments would be unacceptable.
However, I can't help thinking that Rafa should have kept his comments to himself, you just know the yannks were waiting for him to do it again after his Athens outburst.

Agreed bazza mate although, perhaps we'd never have known how Hicks had felt if Rafa hadn't of spoken out mate eh

[Johnny]

You`d think that after 20 yrs off one sided reporting about Liverpool FC our fans would stop believing what is written in the press.
I have`nt bought a paper in 5 yrs.
The London press love stirring it up with us every time we get close to climbing back on our Perch.FTP!!!!!

[Armchairkopite]

This is real.

[Steve101]

Glass still half empty eh Tom?

I find this article intriguing for a number of reasons, primarily the tone in which it is written. "Cowboy boot messiahs"? Headlines like that don't usually lead to an unbiased dictum. Though admittedly every writer, person even has to have their own opinion, or angle, but just how has this writer arrived at his? Through xenophobic stereotypes, rumours and a few throw away quotes that have absolutely nothing to do with LFC.

Also generalizing that most Liverpool fans have been "mugs" to believe what G+T said they'd do? Really? We were mugs then to believe they'd revamp that awful identikit stadium design, and give us a state of the art new one? Mugs to believe that we'd spend more this summer than we've ever done before on players?

You know what worries me? Jobsworth cunts like this bloke believing a bull**** non-story then trying to create one by character assassination. And lets be honest here, he's been clever enough to tap into most peoples insecurities surrounding the unknown, which our new owners are, we know nothing about them so it’s easy to make up stories and pass them off as fact, because we have no previous reference. I don't know anything about Tom Hicks, so I'm supposed to believe the word of a bloke like this? Unbelievable.

Really surprised Tom that you think this is a “what we’re up against”, or maybe I’ve got it wrong and you really mean we are “up against” the lazy, uninformed speculative journalism that we’ve seen in the past week.

Has Rafa been sacked yet?

Got to agree with that Mr Manson ( a first?!!!) Some seem able to trust shoddy journos who tell us we were wrong to trust someone else! something not right there, and a pretty poor appreciation of liverpool fans as well. the ppers eh, dont you just love 'em!!
I also seem to recall this 'story' being comprehensively torn apart somewhere else, it would seem its more of a reorganisation, with all parties keeping jobs but doing what they like best. Of course i could be wrong, in which case ill get a job with a newspaper and no-one will ever question it!!!

[enema of the state]

I think most people were taken in by H&G. They played a great PR hand but as some of us said at the time, the proof will be in the pudding. Its easy to come in saying all the right things, doing the right thing is always harder.

My reservations were not particularly against H&G, I would have felt the same about Kraft, DIC, Shinawatra. Anyone whose primary motive is to make money can never have the best interests of the club at heart. Any hard headed businessman ( and anyone who makes the sort of money any of the above have) will be utterly ruthless. There will be no sentiment, no taking the fans into account, no anything except how can we best make money out of LFC. Of course success on the pitch goes hand in hand with this but they want success because it generates more cash, not to deliver joy to the supporters, not for the glory but for the cash.

On top of that they don't care or understand LFC and its heritage. In the space of 6 months or so, they've turned LFC into Spurs or Newcastle, clubs that are constantly in turmoil off the pitch due to the arrogance and ineptitude of their owners. The yanks in 6 months or so have turned LFC into a footballing war zone. LFC is in the middle of a bitter civil war. Clubs like Newcastle & Spurs have owners threatening to sack managers for no good reason. Spurs and Newcastle have fans marching in the street to save their managers neck. We've now joined their ranks and make no mistake its H&G at fault.

In all my years at Anfield, we've never needed to march to air our views to the board. We've never needed to chant the managers name to try to keep him in a job. But we did last night. We knew it, the players knew it, Rafa knew it. It was us saying to H&G, this is our club, Rafa is our manager, don't you dare sack him.

Trouble is, we don't count anymore. Its not our club anymore, its theirs, they can do what they like. sure we can protest but in truth what can we really do. Nothing thats what. H&G have turned us into Spurs or Newcastle. We've turned into the clubs we all despised. A money generating cash cow owned by ego maniacs who sack anyone who doesn't tow the party line.

The Liverpool Way that we knew has gone. It may sound OTT to some of you but thats how I feel right now.
The old LFC of Robinson, Smith and Moores has gone. So too has a large part of what made LFC special. It took decades to build and 6 months to dismantle.

Marching in the street to save a manager who took us to 2 CL finals in 3 years, winning 1. Actually, not even Spurs or Newcastle would be in this mess. We're worse than they ever were.

great post in a great thread

but never forget - we DO matter. were lfc's customers as well as the ones with the emotional investment. if H&G fail to recognise their side of the bargain then they can still be hit where it hurts them mosts - in the wallet.

This whole deal is a media driven circus. it was the yanks that let the cat out of the bag, not rafa. all he did was act a bit sulky at a press conference - i dont believe H & G acted in a machiavellian way, i believe it was in simple ignorance/naivity of what the british press would do with the story

I dont believe rafa will be sacked becuause it would be a bad business decision. In american sports, it wouldnt because management staff turn around and team building cycles much faster but these yanks are doing their thing from far away and relying on advice i suspect. theyll get the right advice and this thing will be settled.

as for the chelsea comparison raise by dww, im far less sure abramovic has recruited well. grant strted with an excellent squad. i cant see chelsea going anywhere but backwards.

[Kilteragh]

Well the papers took it either way. One paper I remember reading said it meant Rafa was safe, the rest went with his job being on the line.

All the statement did for me was confirm that no decision re sacking Rafa would be made until 16 Dec. It did not assure me that Rafa's job would be safe beyond that date. The statement said something to the effect of "the requirements of the team will be assessed on 16 Dec". Does that mean they will also consider a possible requirement for the team that the manager needs to be changed?

Right so all this is just the tabloids blowing it all out of proportion is it.
Rafa's press conference, him wearing the tracksuit, not being allowed 2 bosman t'fers, 2000 fans marching, The Kop singing for their hero for 90 mins, all that over a minor tiff which the red tops have exploited to the limit because we all know they have an ante LFC agenda.:whatever:

i mean Dec 16th isn't too late to sort out Jan t'fers is it, in fact why not leave it to mid Jan, that'll still leave 2 weeks to sort them out.

I really think people need to cotton on to just how serious a mess we are in behind the scenes and the effect this will have on the pitch as it continues to be played out.

You're both completely missing my point but Dhavlos you have a reasoned argument.

Undoubtedly something went on behind the scenes. Where I have the problem is with people drawing outrageous conclusions from little or no fact.

Sir Bob - Try reading my posts in full before you judge what I'm saying.
So 2000 people marching means its true that Rafa is going to be sacked does it? Wake up mate :whatever:

It means Reds fans are concerned about the possibility that he might be sacked and want to show their support. It doesn't make it true that he will be though.

Once more - papers ran with the story that Rafa was to be sacked imminently. That turned out not to be true obviously so now all they can say it his job may still be under threat. This is scaremongering which might or might not be true - but my point, for the last time, is that nobody knows and getting into a tizzy over headlines, none of which have been proven, is pointless.

If we need to "cotton on to how serious this is" can you enlighten us on that with facts?

[Dhav]

You're both completely missing my point but Dhavlos you have a reasoned argument.

Undoubtedly something went on behind the scenes. Where I have the problem is with people drawing outrageous conclusions from little or no fact.

Sir Bob - Try reading my posts in full before you judge what I'm saying.
So 2000 people marching means its true that Rafa is going to be sacked does it? Wake up mate :whatever:

It means Reds fans are concerned about the possibility that he might be sacked and want to show their support. It doesn't make it true that he will be though.

Once more - papers ran with the story that Rafa was to be sacked imminently. That turned out not to be true obviously so now all they can say it his job may still be under threat. This is scaremongering which might or might not be true - but my point, for the last time, is that nobody knows and getting into a tizzy over headlines, none of which have been proven, is pointless.

If we need to "cotton on to how serious this is" can you enlighten us on that with facts?

I understand what you're saying, but the simple fact remains, if Rafa's job is safe and the idea of sacking him is not on the agenda, why has the club not released a statement to this effect to end the speculation and rumour-mongering? Parry was quick to comment on the story about Hicks dispensing with his shares today. It doesn't add up.

In the absence of assurances people will clearly assume the worst, hence the fan protest. I'm sure the club knew about the protest ahead of time, Rafa obviously did. If it was all in vain and the club had no intention of sacking Rafa they could have assured us of that and saved us a lot of time, put all that police time to better use also kept the roads open.

I'm of the belief that this situation was extremely critical and still is. If we lose against Marseille and Man U then I wouldn't be surprised if these American cunts use that as the excuse they've been looking for to sack Rafa.

Yes, we can take everything with a pinch of salt and blindly assume the best, not believe anything unless it is factual or is confirmed by an impeccable source and trust the yanks. Or we can get behind our manager and show the yanks how much he means to us and show them it is folly to even consider a scenario whereby Rafa is not Liverpool manager. The time has come for the Liverpool fans to stand beside Rafa and help drive the team on in these difficult times. The club and its owners are patently doing nothing publicly to ease the pressure on the players and coaching staff, so we have to do even more to inspire them and motivate them.

[Kilteragh]

Yes, we can take everything with a pinch of salt and blindly assume the best, not believe anything unless it is factual or is confirmed by an impeccable source and trust the yanks. Or we can get behind our manager and show the yanks how much he means to us and show them it is folly to even consider a scenario whereby Rafa is not Liverpool manager. The time has come for the Liverpool fans to stand beside Rafa and help drive the team on in these difficult times. The club and its owners are patently doing nothing publicly to ease the pressure on the players and coaching staff, so we have to do even more to inspire them and motivate them.

I'm not taking anything with a pinch of salt and I'm fully behind the manager.
Equally why would you go the opposite way and assume the worst???

Coming out and giving Rafa a vote of confidence or whatever would be tantamount to giving him carte blanche to go on similar rants again and nobody in their right minds conducts their business in public. It should be done with dignity behind closed doors.

Do you honestly think that Slur Alex has never had a blazing row with his board / owners. Has he ****? He just hasn't done it in public.

[Dhav]

I'm not taking anything with a pinch of salt and I'm fully behind the manager.
Equally why would you go the opposite way and assume the worst???

Coming out and giving Rafa a vote of confidence or whatever would be tantamount to giving him carte blanche to go on similar rants again and nobody in their right minds conducts their business in public. It should be done with dignity behind closed doors.

Do you honestly think that Slur Alex has never had a blazing row with his board / owners. Has he ****? He just hasn't done it in public.

Dont agree that giving Rafa a public vote of confidence would be tantamount to giving him carte blanche to go on similar rants. At this stage I think it would do more good than harm as it will kill all this damaging speculation. If they want they can give him a dressing down behind the scenes. Putting aside Rafa's lack of professionalism in his comments, sitting on the touchline in a tracksuit etc, Hicks' comments that Rafa should shut up and concentrate on coaching, plus Sunday's ludicrous statement from Gillett/Hicks have been far more damaging to the club and the team.

I've explained why i've assumed the worst - IMO the club, with their statements and consequent silence have driven and fueled the rumours when they could just have easily killed them stone dead if they wanted.

Well **** Hicks, Gillett and Parry. They ****ed it up and their **** ups have rallied the fans behind Rafa, which will now make it harder for them to sack him if they choose.