New stadium update...

[Slinky Skills]

Fact is we have 2 bids = competition = good for us.

If we put pressure on HKS they may be able to do better, if not we get an improved AFL one which very few were complaining about last year. I don't have a problem with because at the end of the day we need a much bigger stadium and funds for players. Doing this increases our chances and basically is good business sense, IMO.

As much as I'm dissapointed that they're not going ahead with the HKS design I'm pleased it will be a 70,000 seater which is massive. It is very good business sense and I still belive it will be very unique.

[Venton]

If they have downscaled the stadium to save the club an extra £200m of debt and we get a bigger stadium into the bargain then that's surely a good thing.

The credit crunch hasn't got everything to do with it either. The futures on steel for the next couple of years are well up. That has a lot to do with it too.

I would expect businessmen like G&H to make sure that a plan from six months ago wouldn't cripple us in a few years because market conditions had changed in the meantime.

A lot of us seem to want something for nothing on this buyout. This wasn't an Abramovich move by any means.

[rage]

@ CMS - "Because let's be honest to me they've done nothing wrong"

Bollocks, they have come in and mouthed off, promised the world and delivered **** all so far, id say any improvement has been Rafas doing and they very nearly cost us him.
Seriously fella I know you try and be all controversial on here but if you seriously think "they have done nothing wrong" then your a bigger pillock than I initially thought.

Look, Im not saying we should all now hate them and be against them every step of the way just because we want to, but id say that it was back up to those two yanks to win us all over again, because so far apart from giving it all the talk they havent walked the walk.

[Dhav]

The credit crunch hasn't got everything to do with it either. The futures on steel for the next couple of years are well up. That has a lot to do with it too.

I would expect businessmen like G&H to make sure that a plan from six months ago wouldn't cripple us in a few years because market conditions had changed in the meantime.

A lot of us seem to want something for nothing on this buyout. This wasn't an Abramovich move by any means.

Not at all. No one was expecting an Abramovich not even with DIC. All we wanted was for the club not to be burdened with massive debt, for us to get a good stadium and for us to be competitive with the top clubs in the transfer market, ie just for the promises made to be kept. At the moment it seems we are not getting what we were promised.

[rage]

This whole American affair is turning into a complete embarrassment.

[Venton]

Not at all. No one was expecting an Abramovich not even with DIC. All we wanted was for the club not to be burdened with massive debt, for us to get a good stadium and for us to be competitive with the top clubs in the transfer market, ie just for the promises made to be kept. At the moment it seems we are not getting what we were promised.

The debt was always going to be on the club. Once you commit to build a stadium at that kind of cost you recoup it. It is easier to secure debt against future income from a stadium, standard securitisation.

Did anyone really think that these businessmen would shove a couple of hundred million in and expect nothing in return? Seriously?

They are supplying us with a stadium - 70,000 capacity. Maybe it doesn't look like that blancmange they originally showed but I would have expected them to ditch that if it turned out it was going to be prohibitively expensive. That's business sense too.

And once revenue streams get anywhere near those of United or Arsenal then the transfer money will rise. How can we expect to be anywhere near the spend levels of United and Arsenal when the money coming in is less?

At the end of the day these are businessmen, nothing else or more. They always have been, are and will be. I don't think any of us had illusions that they came in to spend their own money to make us better without anything in return, did we?

[kurtangle01]

The debt was always going to be on the club. Once you commit to build a stadium at that kind of cost you recoup it. It is easier to secure debt against future income from a stadium, standard securitisation.

Did anyone really think that these businessmen would shove a couple of hundred million in and expect nothing in return? Seriously?

They are supplying us with a stadium - 70,000 capacity. Maybe it doesn't look like that blancmange they originally showed but I would have expected them to ditch that if it turned out it was going to be prohibitively expensive. That's business sense too.

And once revenue streams get anywhere near those of United or Arsenal then the transfer money will rise. How can we expect to be anywhere near the spend levels of United and Arsenal when the money coming in is less?

At the end of the day these are businessmen, nothing else or more. They always have been, are and will be. I don't think any of us had illusions that they came in to spend their own money to make us better with anything in return, did we?

I think you've just hit the nail on the head.

[Venton]

I think you've just hit the nail on the head.

Maybe. I desperately hope that they will invest enough to start getting us up there consistently. With a new stadium and hopefully an overhaul of our woeful merchandising strategy the cash they spend on stadiums and transfers will generate revenue and then more transfer cash. Much as I hate it the Glaziers coming in hasn't affected United's spend, has it?
Murky world we live in now I think. What does owning our team mean any more?

[AFII]

The debt was always going to be on the club. Once you commit to build a stadium at that kind of cost you recoup it. It is easier to secure debt against future income from a stadium, standard securitisation.

Did anyone really think that these businessmen would shove a couple of hundred million in and expect nothing in return? Seriously?

They are supplying us with a stadium - 70,000 capacity. Maybe it doesn't look like that blancmange they originally showed but I would have expected them to ditch that if it turned out it was going to be prohibitively expensive. That's business sense too.

And once revenue streams get anywhere near those of United or Arsenal then the transfer money will rise. How can we expect to be anywhere near the spend levels of United and Arsenal when the money coming in is less?

At the end of the day these are businessmen, nothing else or more. They always have been, are and will be. I don't think any of us had illusions that they came in to spend their own money to make us better with anything in return, did we?

The problem is that they could easily have said the above from the beginning instead of saying something completely different.

Then many Liverpool supporters would be a lot less disappointed because then they would only do what they said they would do.

You don't make a lot of promises before you know exactly what you promise.

[Venton]

The problem is that they could easily have said the above from the beginning instead of saying something completely different.

Then many Liverpool supporters would be a lot less disappointed because then they would only do what they said they would do.

You don't make a lot of promises before you know exactly what you promise.

I completely agree with you mate because there is nothing worse than that kind of two-facedness. But I haven't ever seen them say that.

[Dhav]

The debt was always going to be on the club. Once you commit to build a stadium at that kind of cost you recoup it. It is easier to secure debt against future income from a stadium, standard securitisation.

Did anyone really think that these businessmen would shove a couple of hundred million in and expect nothing in return? Seriously?

They are supplying us with a stadium - 70,000 capacity. Maybe it doesn't look like that blancmange they originally showed but I would have expected them to ditch that if it turned out it was going to be prohibitively expensive. That's business sense too.

And once revenue streams get anywhere near those of United or Arsenal then the transfer money will rise. How can we expect to be anywhere near the spend levels of United and Arsenal when the money coming in is less?

At the end of the day these are businessmen, nothing else or more. They always have been, are and will be. I don't think any of us had illusions that they came in to spend their own money to make us better without anything in return, did we?

Everyone would have expected us to go into debt on account of the stadium, but that's not a massive issue as the stadium will pay for itself. But the additional debt of the cost of them buying the club is for me a big issue. The way I see it, it puts us in a worse position than under Moores doesn't it ie in even more debt?

[AFII]

I completely agree with you mate because there is nothing worse than that kind of two-facedness. But I haven't ever seen them say that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEcOdOpxtxs

The famous interview with them before the CL final.

[Venton]

Everyone would have expected us to go into debt on account of the stadium, but that's not a massive issue as the stadium will pay for itself. But the additional debt of the cost of them buying the club is for me a big issue. The way I see it, it puts us in a worse position than under Moores doesn't it ie in even more debt?

I agree, we are in a worse position in a way. But again, the money they spent on us was always going to be recouped. They weren't going to wipe it off their business plan. Only Abramovich does that.

Before selling Moores got a huge amount of stick from us Liverpool fans for not being able to invest enough in the club to make us competitive with the other big three. So he sold us to G&H on the basis that they would invest in a stadium and the team, thereby leading us on to more success and revenue. That's the day we sold our soul. Now we have to hope that we get something in return for that. I personally thought it was a bad idea, but only just. We lost a benevolent and well off chairman for two very well off businessmen. I hope they succeed in their plan which means that we have too. The debt was always on us though from the minute they took over.

[Dhav]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEcOdOpxtxs

The famous interview with them before the CL final.

Thanks for that AFII, first time I've seen that. Disgusted to see GG waving dollars around. I know he meant it jovially but it's very un-Liverpool like, and also seems hollow in light of what's happening now.

Also brings back the heartache of Athens, dont think I'll ever get over that, ans certainly not before we win #6 or #19

[Venton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEcOdOpxtxs

The famous interview with them before the CL final.

That has brought back memories for me too mate. But I don't see anything in that about where the debt is going, and I can't see any broken promises either. They've spent a huge amount and they are going to spend a huge amount on the stadium as well. I've no doubt they will spend more on the team as well because it's in their interest to invest.

I'm no apologist for them, and I would rather we never sold. At least we had ourselves back then and weren't beholden. But I never once thought, for once second, that they would buy the club, fund a stadium and spend huge amounts on the team. That's Abramovich territory.