Rafa had on off day?

[Dhav]

You forgot the crossbar.

Duly edited

[Woobus]

Rafa is a horrible manager at being pro-active in games with things such as subs and anyone who believes differently clearly hasn't followed our club since he took charge.

He has made some great subs this year and the amount of goals we have scored from 60 minutes on is great. Been a right few matches were his subs have really changed us this year and we always look more dangerous after he makes his subs on 60 minutes.

[calvoboy]

Rafa is a horrible manager at being pro-active in games with things such as subs and anyone who believes differently clearly hasn't followed our club since he took charge.

I disagree entirely. Even on Saturday he was looking to bring Kewell on at 1-1 to change the shape of the team and push for the win, only for them to score while we were waiting for the sub to be made. Nearly all of his subs are to change the shape of the team and alter tactics, he rarely brings on like for like.

Criticising his initial selection is fair enough, playing without wingers at Reading was an odd choice to make, and doing so with Sissoko in midefield even odder, but there are few managers who use substitutes as well as Rafa.

[breffniboy]

Was a bit depressed after Saturday night myself.

Things were going really well, the bandwagon was rolling and we were getting up a right head of steam. Then Rafa comes up with another bizarro formation and selection. Playing a similar team and formation to our last few matches and we'd have wiped the floor with Reading.

It sounds like airy-fairy nonsense but when you worry too much about the opposition you send them a message that in some sense you fear them and this gives them confidence, like it did to Reading who now have their first ever win against one of the top 4 and wouldn't you just know it'd just have to be us.

What was wrong with sticking by and large by the team that had been doing so well for us, and letting a game but limited and lacking in quality Reading side actually worry about US - we're the ones with the ****ing quality, why are we tying ourselves in knots trying to come up with intricate systems and plans to beat READING??????? You do that in Champions League finals or against big sides, surely not at Reading? And yes, I'd accept the major decisions went against us and we had no luck, but we seldom got in behind them for a gilt-edged chance either and Rafa's approach to the match was totally flawed.

Episodes like this will continue to undermine us but I can't see Rafa changing. Arse result kept us in the hunt but now we absolutely have to beat United next weekend. It's not beyond us but as ever, that's strictly on the proviso that Rafa doesn't over-think it.

[bobbyfallon]

we have lost once, **** it - **** happens

we will lose again - probsbly another 2-3 and could still win the league

we are still in with a chance to win everything we entered

we have agger and alonso coming back shortly.

not all bad really...

but see that ****in momo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AFII]

Rafa makes mistakes but to blame him for Saturdays defeat when we don't know how important the Marseille game is when it comes down to keeping his job and the transfer budget is pointless.

For all we know G&H could have told him that he will be sacked if we don't win that game or that he won't get money to spend in January.

Then all of you would probably have started an even weaker side than the one Rafa started with against Reading to be sure that players like Carra, Gerrard and Torres is fit against Marseille.

It's pointless to blame anyone when we don't know the facts behind the decisions.

[Reece]

Rafa makes mistakes but to blame him for Saturdays defeat when we don't know how important the Marseille game is when it comes down to keeping his job and the transfer budget is pointless.

For all we know G&H could have told him that he will be sacked if we don't win that game or that he won't get money to spend in January.

Then all of you would probably have started an even weaker side than the one Rafa started with against Reading to be sure that players like Carra, Gerrard and Torres is fit against Marseille.

It's pointless to blame anyone when we don't know the facts behind the decisions.

Plus it was all the ref's fault anyway

[Dhav]

Was a bit depressed after Saturday night myself.

Things were going really well, the bandwagon was rolling and we were getting up a right head of steam. Then Rafa comes up with another bizarro formation and selection. Playing a similar team and formation to our last few matches and we'd have wiped the floor with Reading.

It sounds like airy-fairy nonsense but when you worry too much about the opposition you send them a message that in some sense you fear them and this gives them confidence, like it did to Reading who now have their first ever win against one of the top 4 and wouldn't you just know it'd just have to be us.

What was wrong with sticking by and large by the team that had been doing so well for us, and letting a game but limited and lacking in quality Reading side actually worry about US - we're the ones with the ****ing quality, why are we tying ourselves in knots trying to come up with intricate systems and plans to beat READING??????? You do that in Champions League finals or against big sides, surely not at Reading? And yes, I'd accept the major decisions went against us and we had no luck, but we seldom got in behind them for a gilt-edged chance either and Rafa's approach to the match was totally flawed.

Episodes like this will continue to undermine us but I can't see Rafa changing. Arse result kept us in the hunt but now we absolutely have to beat United next weekend. It's not beyond us but as ever, that's strictly on the proviso that Rafa doesn't over-think it.

I think it is too simplistic to say Rafa was giving Reading too much respect etc by playing intricate systems and formations etc. May be Rafa thought that this particular system was better equipped than our normal style to beat Reading comfortably or early and ease our way to victory before the massive game on Tues. I don't necessarily think it is a simple case of "oh, he pays them too much respect, he's showing them we fear them etc", it's just a case of picking the best system, personell to win the particular game (in his opinion of course).

[AFII]

Plus it was all the ref's fault anyway

How could I forget that?

Must be the Neil Young syndrome

[Dhav]

Rafa makes mistakes but to blame him for Saturdays defeat when we don't know how important the Marseille game is when it comes down to keeping his job and the transfer budget is pointless.

For all we know G&H could have told him that he will be sacked if we don't win that game or that he won't get money to spend in January.

Then all of you would probably have started an even weaker side than the one Rafa started with against Reading to be sure that players like Carra, Gerrard and Torres is fit against Marseille.

It's pointless to blame anyone when we don't know the facts behind the decisions.

I tend to agree with this. The undue pressure Rafa's is under to get the result on Tues has underpinned his selection and decisions re Sat's game, a situation the owners could have easily resolved if they wanted to...

[Skillz]

Imo...
Not playing Crouch in Athens.
Not playing Didi in Istanbul.
Resting Torres at home to Brum..(in retrospect the team should have been good enough to beat Brum though...so some of it is down to players as well.)
Playing Momo when he is totally out of form.
Playing Torres when injured against Arse. (but what did Torres tell him...? we dont know)
And much more....

So you wanted a 5 man midfield in Instanbal and you wanted a four man midfield in Athens? All this without the benefit of hindsight?

[Skillz]

I tend to agree with this. The undue pressure Rafa's is under to get the result on Tues has underpinned his selection and decisions re Sat's game, a situation the owners could have easily resolved if they wanted to...

[The Erectile Banana]

So you wanted a 5 man midfield in Instanbal and you wanted a four man midfield in Athens? All this without the benefit of hindsight?

Anyone could have seen playing Kewell in Istanbul was a mistake before the match even started, except for the patriotic Aussies in the pub who cheered when they heard the news. I had my head in my hands when I heard.

Crouch should have started in Athens instead of Kuyt and we could have kept the same formation.

[tomasjj]

So you wanted a 5 man midfield in Instanbal and you wanted a four man midfield in Athens? All this without the benefit of hindsight?

No, I actually wanted a 4231 both times. But that is another story.

I wanted Crouch to start instead of Kuyt in Athens, but I don't think it mattered much as we did ok apart from a jammy first goal and then we got a bit too impatient and they scored the 2nd. Actually, our chances came after we pressurized their defense when they were on the ball. Kuyt is better at that.

As for Istanbul, I did let out a big sigh when I saw Didi was not starting. Fact.

[Skillz]

No, I actually wanted a 4231 both times. But that is another story.

I wanted Crouch to start instead of Kuyt in Athens, but I don't think it mattered much as we did ok apart from a jammy first goal and then we got a bit too impatient and they scored the 2nd. Actually, our chances came after we pressurized their defense when they were on the ball. Kuyt is better at that.

As for Istanbul, I did let out a big sigh when I saw Didi was not starting. Fact.

Congratulations. Perhaps we should analyse how Rafa got us to those finals because if he is smart enough to get us there, which he has proven there must be method to his decisions. The fact we do not agree all the time is most likely due to information that we do not have. It's managing a squad with all the information before you, compared to us, that is the difference.

Rafa is very, very good. He's not perfect though, i will give you that. Still think he will rise above all at the end of the week