Rafa had on off day?

[disco]

Yep, deluded and extremely stubborn. In fact so stubborn he reminds me a lot of the man he spends most of his time on here bashing, Rafa

Disappointing yes, but we'll find out in the next few days whether ultimately they will prove to be the right decisions.

PS I meant DJS thinks I'm deluded also

[Dhav]

Thing is, if we don't win both games then people will say 'well Reading didn't work then', rather than 'our players were fresh, but not good enough'.

Indeed. I'd be interested to know how many late goals (ie goals in the last 10 mins) we've scored this season and last. If nothing else, our league record over the last few yrs proves that Rafa's methods ensures the team is primed to perform at its peak fitness in the 2nd half of the season.

[BrooklynRed]

My two cents, for whatever they are worth.

To begin, I would rather have Rafa than any other manager out there. I can't name a single manager who would do as well with the resources available to him; If you say Mourinho, well, I point to his Russian wallet and Rafa's mastery of him in the big matches. Ours is one of the best mangers in the world. Period.

That said, like anyone, he has some serious flaws. One is his inability to adapt; He seems far too focused on the idea that his tactics should work to make the proper adjustments. If you look at our draws and losses, its pretty clear that Rafa's patience with players could also be seen as an act of deep faith in his pre-match analysis. You can read it on his face; They got lucky. This system should be working. When it is not working, it takes until the 60th and 70th minutes to make changes (its like clockwork).

Anyone who points to Istanbul as proof of his ability to make changes and win matches is in denial of Kewell's ankle injury and the fact that we got insanely lucky in that match. 99 times out of 100, you go down 3-0 at half to AC Milan, there is no way back. We fought hard and pulled off a miracle, but miracles are no justification.

That said, his second flaw seems to be that he believes his tactics are player-proof; I truly believe he sees the players as cogs in his tactical machine. If he has tactics in place, and he trains the players in his philosophy and in the system, they should be able to do what they are told and score goals based on his tactical blueprint. This is simply not the case and on Saturday he got it wrong. Everyone knows he got it wrong because the first among you to say that when you saw the team sheet and saw the combination of Crouch/Torres/Voronin/Momo/Mascherano/Gerrard, you thought it was the best tactical and player choice based on all considerations (CL, Man U, etc), I will call you a liar. Where was LUCAS? Are you telling me you're saving a young player who barely got a match this season for fitness reasons for the CL three days later? You knew deep in your bones that this was a mistake; Lucas should have played over Momo. Period. Where was Benayoun? Kewell? If it is ok to run Torres and Gerrard for 60 minutes, why not Benayoun? Is he not as fit? How about Babel on the wing? How about ONE WINGER?!?! Mascherano played 90. Is he not factoring in Tuesday? Sunday? The fallacy that Rafa was protecting these assets for three games in a week is a JOKE. These men make millions of pounds to be fit and run around for 90 minutes as needed.

Looking at this line-up, the need for true width was OBVIOUS; The lack of width has been the plague of Liverpool FC since Rafa came here. Now that he has some half-decent choices out wide, he should have played one of them. Voronin? Having a laugh and we all knew it.

So, I stand behind Rafa as the manager I want for this team, but don't sell me piss and call it lemonade. The reality is, he got the tactics absolutely wrong and even if it wasn't obvious to him looking at the team sheet, the lack of width and creativity in the midfield was glaringly obvious after about 15 minutes of the match. It was time to adjust and we didn't. If we don't **** Marseille and at least draw with the Mancs, all of this tinkering will have been a waste of three points anyway. Win the game you're in and live to fight another day. I think Rafa overestimates the physical drain on modern footballers; These are professional athletes paid large sums to beat the hell out of teams like Reading. The manager needs to do better. Period.

[Guest]

3 penalties? FLAMO

Everything didnt go against us, some things did, but we also didnt play well.

Your post sums it up though, Rafa Can Do No Wrong, if we win, he's a genius, if we lose, it's not his fault, it's because things go against us.

Riiiiiiight....

[disco]

Brooklyn - Very good post, but IMO he set up to play compact, and have width provided by Voronin, Gerrard, Arbeloa and Riise. He was expecting a midfield battle and (IMO) you don't want lightweight wingers early on to fight that.

Second half the intention was to introduce Kewell and Babel.

Again, we created enough chances using the system (and created more with wingers), but let in two stupid goals.

[BrooklynRed]

Brooklyn - Very good post, but IMO he set up to play compact, and have width provided by Voronin, Gerrard, Arbeloa and Riise. He was expecting a midfield battle and (IMO) you don't want lightweight wingers early on to fight that.

Second half the intention was to introduce Kewell and Babel.

Again, we created enough chances using the system (and created more with wingers), but let in two stupid goals.

I don't disagree with that analysis of his intentions, but I don't know why he would do that; You're afraid of Hunt and Convey? Please. Because Torres got mugged in the Cup tie? Again, he got mugged but we walked out 4-2 winners. He can handle it. You can't build an attacking system around protecting your creative players; You have to attack. Also, Babel and Gerrard on the wings with Lucas and Mascherano, Torres and Crouch is NOT lightweight and provides the flexibility to have a lot of overlapping runs, speed and creativity. The only player that seems truly "lightweight" is Benayoun and fair play, he can sit if you play Babel and Lucas.

I can see where Rafa is coming from, but I disagree with his analysis. Why not play to take the lead with quality and pace and then sub to defend the lead? Bring on Voronin and Momo when you're up 3-1; Starting the game that way is just too conservative and it cost us. You have to have the courage to start the match to win, not to keep it close so you can introduce super subs. This always seems to be Rafa's philosophy-- stay in the match and get some late magic once you've worn the other team down. Instead, play people who will get the ball to the true quality players on the pitch in dangerous situations, smash and grab the lead, then play to preserve it.

I have all confidence that we can get it done tomorrow and on Sunday, but points late in the season count the same as points now and until Rafa plays the team to earn maximum points in the league, he will always be somewhat frustrating.

[disco]

Cheers for the reply.

I think it would have worked (without deliberate width) if Sissoko provided any semblance of a (consistent) attacking threat..... but there you go!

We still managed around 20 shots, hitting the post and bar and forcing some great saves. Two stupid challenges and some not so helpful refereeing also cost us.

Different day (indeed most days) we win 2 or 3-0, Rafa's a genius and everyone's happy.

[AFII]

The difference between us and Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal is that they play the same system more or less every game, we don't.

That means that when a squad player plays then he knows exactly what to do on the pitch, which runs he should make and so on and they train in that position week in week out. That means that he will make a good job in that position.

Rafa changes system a lot, 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, 4-4-1-1 is some of the systems he used this season. That means that a player will get it more difficult to know exactly what to do and which runs he will make and which runs his team mates will do.

We will be more difficult to read and figure out but our players won't be special trained in one position and that means that the system will fail sometimes because of misunderstanding on the pitch.

[BrooklynRed]

Cheers for the reply.

I think it would have worked (without deliberate width) if Sissoko provided any semblance of a (consistent) attacking threat..... but there you go!

We still managed around 20 shots, hitting the post and bar and forcing some great saves. Two stupid challenges and some not so helpful refereeing also cost us.

Different day (indeed most days) we win 2 or 3-0, Rafa's a genius and everyone's happy.

We'll never know, but you're right, could have been.

Sissoko never provides an attacking threat, but we all know that.

I just see a pattern with Rafa sometimes... He seems to get blinkered by this fitness/late season nonsense; Points late in the season are great, but not when we're too far behind already to catch the leaders. The league has to be a top priority. But honestly, how can it be that you, me -- EVERYONE-- can see that line-up sheet and know it won't work but not Rafa? We look on paper and think "uh-oh," but Rafa is thinking "All things considered, this is the best plan." That is the disconnect I don't understand.

[disco]

AFII - True, but I think those teams can fail against certain teams for being so predictable. I think it's good that we set up depending on the team, tactics, conditions we're up against!

Plus, players should know what's expected of them - we've played that way before with a lot of success.

I'm starting to think people are over-analysing this! It was our first loss of the season and we didn't play particularly badly!

[disco]

I just see a pattern with Rafa sometimes... He seems to get blinkered by this fitness/late season nonsense; Points late in the season are great, but not when we're too far behind already to catch the leaders. The league has to be a top priority. But honestly, how can it be that you, me -- EVERYONE-- can see that line-up sheet and know it won't work but not Rafa? We look on paper and think "uh-oh," but Rafa is thinking "All things considered, this is the best plan." That is the disconnect I don't understand.

We've seen it already in games that it helps - Blackburn were knackered when we were bombarding them.

As for the line-up - I didn't see a problem with 3 up front!! I'm starting to repeat myself, but it was working! Did Reading otherwise pose us much of a threat? If anything our annoyance should be aimed at the ridiculous challenges made by our heroes...

[breffniboy]

Top top posts from Brooklyn Red, the most sense I've read on here in ages.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

But he's as near to perfect as we're going to get

I'm sorry but on reflection his decisions on Saturday evening went beyond what you could term as "errors in judgement".

He started Peter Crouch on the left of a front three. Just think about that.

Then, 3-1 down, he threw the game in the toilet, gave up on it, by taking off our 2 best attacking players - by some distance we'll all agree - then proceeded to have the audacity to give a completely fatuous reason, borderline lie IMO, as to why he made those substitutions.

Is he taking the piss? I, for one, thought it was a disgrace at worst, a shambles at best.

As I said yesterday I'd like to think a misplaced/misguided hubris came over him, and he thought he could start any team with any formation and beat Reading.

I mean it's not the first time he's done something like this, is it?

And until he stops doing it, for my money we'll not win the league under him, and that's certainly nowhere near perfection, not even close.

Can't imagine what those who were at the game made of it. Paying plenty of money for that debacle can't have been pleasant.

[Guest]

I'm sorry but on reflection his decisions on Saturday evening went beyond what you could term as "errors in judgement".

He started Peter Crouch on the left of a front three. Just think about that.

Then, 3-1 down, he threw the game in the toilet, gave up on it, by taking off our 2 best attacking players - by some distance we'll all agree - then proceeded to have the audacity to give a completely fatuous reason, borderline lie IMO, as to why he made those substitutions.

Is he taking the piss? I, for one, thought it was a disgrace at worst, a shambles at best.

As I said yesterday I'd like to think a misplaced/misguided hubris came over him, and he thought he could start any team with any formation and beat Reading.

I mean it's not the first time he's done something like this, is it?

And until he stops doing it, for my money we'll not win the league under him, and that's certainly nowhere near perfection, not even close.

Can't imagine what those who were at the game made of it. Paying plenty of money for that debacle can't have been pleasant.

Keep coming.

[disco]

I can't believe you think we're a two man team.

At least it has been upgraded from a one man team!