Rafa had on off day?

[Craig_H]

FFS DJS, at 3-1 we're not winning even if Pele comes out of retirement and goes on the pitch

Why do people think keeping them on would make that much difference?

No one's managed to score twice in 20 mins then?

Did you leave Istanbul at HT?

[disco]

Think about what you are saying re them "not being a threat". Ridiculous. They scored three times mate, a goal is a goal. So according to yourself we contained them but they scored 3 times. Makes sense.

Our players gifted them mate - **** defending.

They only had one more shot on target.

[disco]

No one's managed to score twice in 20 mins then?

Did you leave Istanbul at HT?

Indeed, it's not impossible albeit very unlikely (100-1 in that case)

The remaining players gave it a very good go, perhaps they need your respect.

[Craig_H]

Indeed, it's not impossible albeit very unlikely (100-1 in that case)

The remaining players gave it a very good go, perhaps they need your respect.

They have my respect. They werent the ones who jacked it in.

And 2 goals in 20 mins isnt a 100/1 shot, not in my book.

[Red_Al_77]

Doesn't say much for our squad strength if Rafa felt he couldn't change the game with 20 to go. I hate to say it but take away Torres and SG and we are a bit toothless. They have scored 50% of our goals in the last 10 games.

[AFII]

Doesn't say much for our squad strength if Rafa felt he couldn't change the game with 20 to go. I hate to say it but take away Torres and SG and we are a bit toothless. They have scored 50% of our goals in the last 10 games.

Maybe because Torres and Gerrard are our only top class attacking players. Kewell may be that in two, three months but he isn't that now.

We don't have enough high quality attacking players so when Gerrard or Torres have an off day then we have no one who can replace them.

[Red_Al_77]

Maybe because Torres and Gerrard are our only top class attacking players. Kewell may be that in two, three months but he isn't that now.

We don't have enough high quality attacking players so when Gerrard or Torres have an off day then we have no one who can replace them.

but they didn't have an off day against Reading. It's just that Rafa deemed Tuesday more important. As it is I'm not that concerned as we are two points closer to the lead over the last two games. I'm more concerned that there appears to be a mindset developing that the CL and money associated with it is more important than thrashing Reading. We have gone so far down the cash cow line that we are forgetting what is really important.

[tomasjj]

When did I say it was about two players?

Let’s be realistic now eh? Both Gerrard and Torres are our top scorers, fine Torres might've had a knock, but how do you explain Gerrard coming off at 3-1 down? Try me.

Fact of the matter is Rafa thought he could get away with playing an understrength team against Reading, and then when it went tits up, he ****ed it off and pulled off the skipper and Carra to make sure he didn't get booked for the scum game.

He gave it away, and it was a disgrace.

Think about what you are saying re them "not being a threat". Ridiculous. They scored three times mate, a goal is a goal. So according to yourself we contained them but they scored 3 times. Makes sense.

[AFII]

but they didn't have an off day against Reading. It's just that Rafa deemed Tuesday more important. As it is I'm not that concerned as we are two points closer to the lead over the last two games. I'm more concerned that there appears to be a mindset developing that the CL and money associated with it is more important than thrashing Reading. We have gone so far down the cash cow line that we are forgetting what is really important.

Gerrard and Torres can't play 90 minutes every game so Rafa will have to make choices like the ones against Reading and take them off until he can sign quality cover for them.

We only have enough squad depth in two positions, central midfield and attacking midfield. We need to strengthen in our other positions.

[BrooklynRed]

Gerrard and Torres can't play 90 minutes every game so Rafa will have to make choices like the ones against Reading and take them off until he can sign quality cover for them.

We only have enough squad depth in two positions, central midfield and attacking midfield. We need to strengthen in our other positions.

The plan was to take off Gerrard and Torres, but obviously the plan was also to be 3-1 UP. This is my point; You don't put yourself in a position to be 3-1 down by playing without any width, by starting two holding CM's who can't attack and playing Voronin on the wing. I don't think at 3-1 down bringing off Gerard and Torres was so terrible. The terrible decision was the formation and line-up. At 3-1 down, you're simply cutting your losses. I was surprised to see both players off as basically it was a concession of defeat at 70 minutes, but that bothers me less than the fact we wasted 70 minutes by playing with the wrong line-up from the get-go. We were not put in a position to succeed, that is the problem.

[glynner]

My two cents, for whatever they are worth.

To begin, I would rather have Rafa than any other manager out there. I can't name a single manager who would do as well with the resources available to him; If you say Mourinho, well, I point to his Russian wallet and Rafa's mastery of him in the big matches. Ours is one of the best mangers in the world. Period.

That said, like anyone, he has some serious flaws. One is his inability to adapt; He seems far too focused on the idea that his tactics should work to make the proper adjustments. If you look at our draws and losses, its pretty clear that Rafa's patience with players could also be seen as an act of deep faith in his pre-match analysis. You can read it on his face; They got lucky. This system should be working. When it is not working, it takes until the 60th and 70th minutes to make changes (its like clockwork).

Anyone who points to Istanbul as proof of his ability to make changes and win matches is in denial of Kewell's ankle injury and the fact that we got insanely lucky in that match. 99 times out of 100, you go down 3-0 at half to AC Milan, there is no way back. We fought hard and pulled off a miracle, but miracles are no justification.

That said, his second flaw seems to be that he believes his tactics are player-proof; I truly believe he sees the players as cogs in his tactical machine. If he has tactics in place, and he trains the players in his philosophy and in the system, they should be able to do what they are told and score goals based on his tactical blueprint. This is simply not the case and on Saturday he got it wrong. Everyone knows he got it wrong because the first among you to say that when you saw the team sheet and saw the combination of Crouch/Torres/Voronin/Momo/Mascherano/Gerrard, you thought it was the best tactical and player choice based on all considerations (CL, Man U, etc), I will call you a liar. Where was LUCAS? Are you telling me you're saving a young player who barely got a match this season for fitness reasons for the CL three days later? You knew deep in your bones that this was a mistake; Lucas should have played over Momo. Period. Where was Benayoun? Kewell? If it is ok to run Torres and Gerrard for 60 minutes, why not Benayoun? Is he not as fit? How about Babel on the wing? How about ONE WINGER?!?! Mascherano played 90. Is he not factoring in Tuesday? Sunday? The fallacy that Rafa was protecting these assets for three games in a week is a JOKE. These men make millions of pounds to be fit and run around for 90 minutes as needed.

Looking at this line-up, the need for true width was OBVIOUS; The lack of width has been the plague of Liverpool FC since Rafa came here. Now that he has some half-decent choices out wide, he should have played one of them. Voronin? Having a laugh and we all knew it.

So, I stand behind Rafa as the manager I want for this team, but don't sell me piss and call it lemonade. The reality is, he got the tactics absolutely wrong and even if it wasn't obvious to him looking at the team sheet, the lack of width and creativity in the midfield was glaringly obvious after about 15 minutes of the match. It was time to adjust and we didn't. If we don't **** Marseille and at least draw with the Mancs, all of this tinkering will have been a waste of three points anyway. Win the game you're in and live to fight another day. I think Rafa overestimates the physical drain on modern footballers; These are professional athletes paid large sums to beat the hell out of teams like Reading. The manager needs to do better. Period.

Great post, sums up how I feel pretty much

I think we could have won the Reading game with just 1 or 2 lineup changes

I also agree with others who are saying that the "throwing in the towel" approach was absolutely galling - I hope I never live to see that again

[tomasjj]

The ref we had has been scheduled to ref Macclesfield - Stockport this weekend.
Good luck.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

but they didn't have an off day against Reading. It's just that Rafa deemed Tuesday more important. As it is I'm not that concerned as we are two points closer to the lead over the last two games. I'm more concerned that there appears to be a mindset developing that the CL and money associated with it is more important than thrashing Reading. We have gone so far down the cash cow line that we are forgetting what is really important.

Spot on.

I'd like to see the European Cup going back to just the Champions of each league being allowed to enter.

This top 4 ****e has devalued our domestic league and it makes me sick.

[AFII]

The ref we had has been scheduled to ref Macclesfield - Stockport this weekend.
Good luck.

So he has been banned from the PL then, not that surprising. Third ref this season that been banned from the PL the following week after been in charge in our game.

Liverpool, a refs worst nightmare.

[Crazy-Horse]

All the Rafa bashing the last 24hrs is quite sad actually.

What happened to the "As always we will focus on supporting our manager" that was writen all over these boards the last fortnight.

When I was watching the Reading game, the commentary team (for NZ) kept harping on about Steve Coppell having played important parts in key defeats for Liverpool. I remember the first as if it was yesterday.

But I doubt in May 1977 that the pubs were full of 'supporters' screaming "Sack Bob" as we see on the message boards 30 years later after our first league defeat of the season in December.

As I say to my son, when he gets upset about a ref, or something similar, "it's in the book!' Put it behind you, move on and makes sure that the issue doesn't turn everything to custard.

YNWA