Financial situation, doom & gloom reports etc

[Kaip]

Ok.
Secondly, they shouldn't have come amidst a blaze of glory, wallowing in it like they did, branding dollars to TV cameras. It was a risk they took, or was it their hollywoodian roots ?

Corrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrect

[Tom]

To be honest, I can't remember that they did say that! I remember Gillet answered a question about fans concern with regard to similarities with the Man Utd takeover and he said they had NOT put debt on the club to do the deal but they never, to my recollection anyway, said that they never would.

They specifically answered that question by saying the debt would not be put on the club. I must admit at the time that I thought they looked pretty shifty when they said it but I repressed these thoughts in the face of the PR campaign that they threw at us.

[Steve001]

Ok.

It's been documented that they're restructuring the deal they made when they bought the club, which was with no 'debt' taken into the club as you say. But why do it now then ? I'm not saying that they should be pilloried for doing that, but the rules seems to have changed now. Why put eye candy and then retract ?

Firstly, this doesn't exude professionalism. Because they're backing out of their initial promises. An investment of this size does require careful planning and I don't think that they couldn't see the credit crunch (or whatever economic crash) 6 months down the line.

Secondly, they shouldn't have come amidst a blaze of glory, wallowing in it like they did, branding dollars to TV cameras. It was a risk they took, or was it their hollywoodian roots ?

Having nothing against them, and hopefully they know what they're doing. But the signs doesn't seem to be good if you judge it by the altercation with Rafa.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but just for now.

Firstly, I believe they said the deal was done with no debt on LFC. That is not the same as saying it was done with no debt!

As to why do it now, I am not sure that matters if you accept the principle that all money has a similar time/value/cost.

I don't know what Eye Candy you refer to. They may have been clever with their words but they said all along that LFC is not a rich man’s toy, Ie: it has to pay its way. They were quite blunt about that and that’s why they revisited the stadium design pretty quickly to look at increased capacity. And just because there is debt on the club, everyone seems to assume that the debt is stand alone and not secured by them which I suspect is wrong, in part anyway. I would be amazed if any funder would lend money without some backstop guarantee from them because if it were possible to borrow these sorts of funds against the business plan alone without any personal commitment from them, Moores could have done the same, so I suspect they will still have to do some underwriting of any loans.

With regard to the blaze of glory, what can I say, the American way of doing things tends to come with razzmatazz! I don’t like it either but like you, I have nothing personal against them. Without being accused of hindsight, I always preferred the DIC approach, although I am not sure the first thing they would have done is to revisit the stadium design however, and I hate to have to use these words about my club, but, I feel the ‘business’ would have been more valuable to DIC via sponsorship etc and more of the cost could have be written off in sponsorship fees etc.

With regard to the fallout with Rafa, and I don’t not want to tempt fate but, it appears to have been sorted. Anyone can have an argument, I think the true test of character is how you come out of it and so far they seem to have sorted out whatever issues they had.

We are where we are and have little choice in the way forward. I think we should chill out, not worry too much about debt, have a great Christmas and hope the gap at the top of the EPL is a little narrower in the New Year.

[Guest]

Firstly, I believe they said the deal was done with no debt on LFC. That is not the same as saying it was done with no debt!

As to why do it now, I am not sure that matters if you accept the principle that all money has a similar time/value/cost.

I don't know what Eye Candy you refer to. They may have been clever with their words but they said all along that LFC is not a rich man’s toy, Ie: it has to pay its way. They were quite blunt about that and that’s why they revisited the stadium design pretty quickly to look at increased capacity. And just because there is debt on the club, everyone seems to assume that the debt is stand alone and not secured by them which I suspect is wrong, in part anyway. I would be amazed if any funder would lend money without some backstop guarantee from them because if it were possible to borrow these sorts of funds against the business plan alone without any personal commitment from them, Moores could have done the same, so I suspect they will still have to do some underwriting of any loans.

With regard to the blaze of glory, what can I say, the American way of doing things tends to come with razzmatazz! I don’t like it either but like you, I have nothing personal against them. Without being accused of hindsight, I always preferred the DIC approach, although I am not sure the first thing they would have done is to revisit the stadium design however, and I hate to have to use these words about my club, but, I feel the ‘business’ would have been more valuable to DIC via sponsorship etc and more of the cost could have be written off in sponsorship fees etc.

With regard to the fallout with Rafa, and I don’t not want to tempt fate but, it appears to have been sorted. Anyone can have an argument, I think the true test of character is how you come out of it and so far they seem to have sorted out whatever issues they had.

We are where we are and have little choice in the way forward. I think we should chill out, not worry too much about debt, have a great Christmas and hope the gap at the top of the EPL is a little narrower in the New Year.

I'm chilling out mate, I've not been moaning about it. Like you, I want more positivity out of this place.

It's just the feeling I have, that something will break soon though, unless unconditional support is given to the manager. I can't see Rafa making compromises for too long.

[Steve001]

They specifically answered that question by saying the debt would not be put on the club. I must admit at the time that I thought they looked pretty shifty when they said it but I repressed these thoughts in the face of the PR campaign that they threw at us.

You might be right Tom and that would be a worry....
As I said earlier, I don't honestly remember their exact words so I can't say one way or the other..

[tomasjj]

I live in east Texas, part of the Dallas "sports market". I was a big Dallas Stars fan (stopped after the strike).

Hicks has been a good owner with the Stars. He has let the hockey people do their thing, and the team is one of the better franchises in the NHL (in terms of competitiveness). I can tell you this based on the fact that I have followed the team since their arrival from Minnesota.

I am not a baseball fan, but many of my friends are. Most of these friends are Rangers fans, and they are not calling for Hicks head on a platter. There was a link to a website provided by one of our members here on Est., and I can assure you that the opinions expressed on that website (while interesting) are NOT indicative of the general opinion amongst Rangers fans. While their team is not very good, it is not felt to be secondary to Hicks being a meddling owner.

I do not personally know Hicks, and he could end up being a massive prick as far as all of us LFC supporters are concerned. But there has been some sensationalism on this board, with people spouting off like they know how they (G & H) are perceived in the US. And in some instances it is wrong. I would suggest withholding grading their ownership until we see what they actually accomplish. But their track record in North America is not one of pure ****e.

Cheers for that perspective.

[Steve001]

I'm chilling out mate, I've not been moaning about it. Like you, I want more positivity out of this place.

It's just the feeling I have, that something will break soon though, unless unconditional support is given to the manager. I can't see Rafa making compromises for too long.

Mate, I totally agree with you re Rafa but apart from fans showing our support when we can, that’s about all we can do..... I am chilled about it though and that’s why I came out from my lurking and said something cos I don't think we should worry and I fear some are worrying more than they need re funding. If these guys want to make money, and I don't care if they do, that is great news cos they need a succesful (on the pitch) club to do that, and they must know that.

Whatever happens, we will always be LFC and if these guys go bust and the banks take a bath, tough, we will still be LFC and we will crack on regardless.....
Good chatting with your fredo but I must get some work done now...........

[Dhav]

They specifically answered that question by saying the debt would not be put on the club. I must admit at the time that I thought they looked pretty shifty when they said it but I repressed these thoughts in the face of the PR campaign that they threw at us.

To me the implication of what they said was clear - that the cost of purchasing the club would not be a millstone round the club's neck. Just one of the things they've subsequently back-tracked on apparently. Admittedly we were all victims of their slick PR campaign, expertly conducted to pull the wool over our eyes.

I note some people on here are suggesting that the doom mongerers are apparently delighting in any bit of speculation and using it as fuel for some kind of anti-yank agenda. Well I tell you what I'm sick of - it's people on here getting on their high horses because they think they're wiser than the rest of us brainless, gullible morons who've stupidly fallen foul to media speculation. I have pointed out here many times why I am concerned, and why I feel my concerns are justified. Please credit us with a bit more sense than that just blindly believing any old baseless nonsense printed in the papers. And don't begrudge us our right to be concerned with what we're seeing and hearing, which is clearly out of keeping with what has been promised by these two.

[sonsofthedesert]

To me the implication of what they said was clear - that the cost of purchasing the club would not be a millstone round the club's neck. Just one of the things they've subsequently back-tracked on apparently. Admittedly we were all victims of their slick PR campaign, expertly conducted to pull the wool over our eyes.

I note some people on here are suggesting that the doom mongerers are apparently delighting in any bit of speculation and using it as fuel for some kind of anti-yank agenda. Well I tell you what I'm sick of - it's people on here getting on their high horses because they think they're wiser than the rest of us brainless, gullible morons who've stupidly fallen foul to media speculation. I have pointed out here many times why I am concerned, and why I feel my concerns are justified. Please credit us with a bit more sense than that just blindly believing any old baseless nonsense printed in the papers. And don't begrudge us our right to be concerned with what we're seeing and hearing, which is clearly out of keeping with what has been promised by these two.

Where is the proof that the debt from buying the club is being put onto the club. On the day of the takeover Parry admitted the cost of the stadium would ultimatly be the clubs as this was standard practice. A single newspaper with now comments from the club is not proof that it is being dumped on the club.

[Tatterdemalion]

The point that is wrong in the report is that LFC are negotiating debt with RBS that has nothing to do with the stadium.

That is the only error that one must spot in order to write off this whole ridiculous ordeal.

G&H have agreed to borrow £x from RBS to finance the stadium. The cost of the stadium has risen due to increased hard commodity prices. In addition, the original terms agreed no longer stand due to the reduction in global liquidity, and the increase in credit spreads.

Therefore G&H need to renegotiate the terms of the loan and also have to have the structure of the stadium revisited. Both costs and financing have increased, and therefore the real financial situation has changed.

The costs of the stadium, have , in fact increased enormously so of course they have had to renegotiate.

With me? Bored? OK, let's make up a bit about the refinancing having nothing to do with the stadium ,and perhaps we have a story which is, on the face of it (renegotiation with RBS, revisiting stadium design) plausible.

Relax. This story has only one nefarious source, yet even very respected posters are taking it at face value.

It would be better, frankly, if we waited until commodity prices started to fall (or rather had finished falling) before we built the new stadium. Anfield will do for a few years.

[Tatterdemalion]

fgh

[Tom]

I'm chilling out mate, I've not been moaning about it. Like you, I want more positivity out of this place.

It's just the feeling I have, that something will break soon though, unless unconditional support is given to the manager. I can't see Rafa making compromises for too long.

He's been shafted good and proper. He turned down real madrid twice because he was promised the funds he needed. How do you think he feels? I'll give you one guess. I know I'll get **** on this forum for saying this but nothing has changed don't believe the spin.

[Bender]

your right tom,rafa has been told to shut up and tow the line,anymore outbursts and he'll be sacked

[Kenneth]

I think us fans should organise protests and start up our own club

[bobbyfallon]

I think us fans should organise protests and start up our own club

we could call ourselves FC liverpool ????