Post match thread

[Craig_H]

Kuyt is a good player, probably not good enough in this kind of games, I agree but he's a decent squad player. Thing is, he gives us tremendous workrate and he creates space. It's just that he lacks ability or confidence to finish off his good work.

United bought the right players but paid a whole load of money to get them. Rafa's been buying players such as Yossi for 5m ... Great bargain, but is he better than the ones United have in the same position ? No. We need money to compete mate, football is won there. Rafa will close the gap, but not as quickly as we would want if he isn't backed to the hilt.

This is the key, you're right, he's decent and can do a job against more than half of the sides in the PL.

But today wasnt for him and Rafa couldnt see that. This is what worries me.

As for the money, take the £10m on Kuyt, the £6m on Sissoko and the £5m on Benayoun and you have £21m to use on someone with REAL quality.

Are you telling me if we had another world class striker, we'd really miss Kuyt, Sissoko and Yossi? Does their combined contribution equal or better that of someone like Torres?

Does it feck.

[Craig_H]

Show me the real prices then, you WUM. You should be kicked at of here, you ****ing mentalist bitch.

Bless you, even when i'm gutted, you bring a smile to my face

As for your prices, Rooney was £20m + add ons and Tevez hasnt even been actually signed by them.

Nani wont cost them £18m for a good while yet.

[the rev leeroy brown]

This is the key, you're right, he's decent and can do a job against more than half of the sides in the PL.

But today wasnt for him and Rafa couldnt see that. This is what worries me.

As for the money, take the £10m on Kuyt, the £6m on Sissoko and the £5m on Benayoun and you have £21m to use on someone with REAL quality.

Are you telling me if we had another world class striker, we'd really miss Kuyt, Sissoko and Yossi? Does their combined contribution equal or better that of someone like Torres?

Does it feck.

you cant serioulsy consider selling bennni?!?!?!? the man is the only player we have with enough skill to pick tight defenses. he might not be the answer long term but for now he the best we got and will get better playing with lfc players this year. i say give him a year or two to show he can do it.

[Craig_H]

OK, so we didnt play that well today, we lacked creativity and created few chances. Bad day and we'll move on. The table come may will tell us if we're good enough to win the league, not one game.

One key factor though, Money. Let's look at the two teams today by transfer fee..

United:

£0
£0 £30m £8m £5m
£12m £17m £20m £0
£27m £(up to) 20m

Total: 139m

Liverpool

£6m
£2m £2.5m £0 £4m
£5m £0 £(up to)17m £5m
£9m £20m

Total: £70.5m

Thats a big difference to overcome, and we're doing well to be where we are IMO.

Yeah but Rafa HAD an £11m bit of quality available as well as his £7m top scorer from last season, who scores goals when he gets a proper chance. His CHOICE not to use them was his OWN, nothing to do with spending power.

Not to mention the £7m Pennant and the £6m sissoko, to name just two.

This is the thing, Rafa CAN now ditch he '5 average players at £6m each' policy, as he has the squad to do it.

[Red_Al_77]

We have enough quality according to Rafa to win the PL and certainly beat Manure. All this talk about prices is pointless. Man for Man we more than match up. We shate out today for other reasons, and not because they spend more than us.

[Craig_H]

Then it's a classic arguement as to why we should be buying quality rather than quantity. Too many Pennants, Crouchs, Kuyts, Voronins & Bellamys and not enough Torress & Mascheranos. If we have an opportunity to offload any of them (and Carson & Sissoko) we shoud take it and buy 1 or 3 top quality players.

Yes, spot on.

[disco]

Scary man with a moustache on Sky makes more sense than some of you gob****es - you don't win the league in December and we just have to beat them at their place

Didn't realise their goal came from a deflected shot

[Craig_H]

That's got absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. The material facts are that our team cost half of what united's did. We won't compete until we compete in the spends. We lost he game to a player that Rafa wasn't given the money to buy.

How about Arsenal's squad?

Cos, unless i'm mistaken, they're competing...

[Craig_H]

Do me a favour mate, since you've such a big problem with Rafa, go start a petition to the yanks saying you want him gone and see how many signatures you get on it. Guarantee you wont reach anywhere near 40 let alone 40,000

So if you point out where he went wrong, you 'want him gone' do you?

Sheer example of RCDNW buffoonary...

[Craig_H]

But the yanks have backed him this summer, and Rafa's signings have delievered.

Let's wait and see what happens in January and next summer.

And if we do sell some players to fund other deals, so what? Most would agree than Pennant, Sissoko, Riise, Carson and Kuyt should be sold, it just makes good business sense.

The bottom line is that we improve the side, how it's done is irrelevant, and so far Rafa's done a good job of that.

I think this is one of the best posts.

You cant deny that this summer, rafa bought very well and you have to give him the benefit of the doubt and say if he's given money again, he'll probably buy well again.

The bigger issue though for me, is more about which players he uses and when. Kuyt today was a disaster waiting to happen and it took Rafa 75 mins to see that. Likewise Kewell (apart from 75 mins thing). This is worrying. He did buy well last summer and i cant criticise him for that. Why he doesnt USE what he bought? Babel up front perchance? Or even ahead of Kewell maybe?

Slower players like Kewell and Kuyt do have their uses, but when you're up against the champions, you need much better and Rafa needs to identify this.

Overall though, of course his position shouldnt be under threat, that'd be lunacy and he deserves to be given the chance to continue signing good players with the money he should hopefully be given. Having done that, he just needs to be a bit more shrewd in his selection policy and we'll be more or less sorted.

[Craig_H]

Well, Rafa has been closing the gap. Can't you see that ? And we've not spent their amounts.

United are in a class of their own and they've pushed ahead when we've been standing still. It will take a couple of years still but if we stick with Rafa and he's backed 100%, we'll be there.

The gap thing is debatable fredo, we finished 21 points off the pace last season, the biggest gap since Rafa's 1st season when we finished 5th. And now, less than halfway through, it's 10 points.

I'm of the opinion it's more likely to end up bigger than 10 points than smaller, given the games we still have to play.

So how is the gap being closed?

[Craig_H]

Which concerns, playing Kuyt ?

He's doing it his way, and until he has a better pool of players to pick from, he won't get results immediately.

But Crouch and Babel ARE better than Kuyt and Kewell...

You talk about a better pool of players to pick from, but on recent evidence and the bizarre continuation of Kuyt's selection, i remain unconvinced that Rafa would even PICK the 'better' players if he had them (which in the two cases given, he DOES have them, but doesnt use them enough).

[Craig_H]

In 2005-2006 we finished a point behind Utd in the league. We outspent them in the Summer yet finished miles adrift last season. Can you explain this please if it's all about the money?

[Craig_H]

The key phrase is "FINISHED BEHIND"

I see your 'finished behind' and raise you a 'going backwards' and 'now miles behind'.

[disco]

Just wanted to put a break in the thread so no-one has an epileptic fit from DJS's avatar which appears in 90% of the drivel on this page.