Post match thread

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

Arsenal have spent substantial funds over the years. Wenger has also been supported for an extended period. You win things by doing 2 things. First you cough up the money, second you don't chop and change managers. If rafa goes it will set this club back 10 years. Uttlerly idiotic.

But the yanks have backed him this summer, and Rafa's signings have delievered.

Let's wait and see what happens in January and next summer.

And if we do sell some players to fund other deals, so what? Most would agree than Pennant, Sissoko, Riise, Carson and Kuyt should be sold, it just makes good business sense.

The bottom line is that we improve the side, how it's done is irrelevant, and so far Rafa's done a good job of that.

[Tom]

So how much did his Valencia sides cost compared to Barca, Real et al?

Are you trying to say he outspent them there?

The financial gap between valencia and barca and real is nowhere near that of the premiership.

[Milan_Milan]

So it's money that is the reason why we never make changes until the 60th and 75th minute?

Of course not, and if you look at any individual game you will find reasons for the result.

My point was that people are using the game today to extrapolate the rest of the season. And over the rest of the season United's extra quality (gained through spending a lot of money) will count. We have a good core, (Reina, Carra, Agger, Mascher, Gerrard, Torres) but don't have the quality around that (IMO) to beat the big teams/best defences.

If you take the key creative positions (RM, LM, Second striker) and compare the teams we arent good enough, these are the positions that unlock defences and win games. Babel may do it in time, but for the moment IMO we don't have enough quality there for our style of play to be effective against the best teams, or be consistent enough over the course of a season.

United: Ronaldo, Giggs, Tevez (32-42m)
Chelsea: Cole, Wright-Phillips, Lampard (39m)
Arsenal: Rosicky, Van Persie, Hleb (19.5m but Arsenal are a special case)
Liverpool: Benayoun, Kewell, Kuyt (19m)

[Dan]

Remember Barcelona bough the likes of Messi at a very young age fro nothing. When was the last time LFC nurtered a young star through?

Gerrard.

It's happening at the minute with plenty of players with bright futures

[Cisseshairdresser]

That's got absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. The material facts are that our team cost half of what united's did. We won't compete until we compete in the spends. We lost he game to a player that Rafa wasn't given the money to buy.

How has Rafa's unwillingness to make positive substitutions earlier in the game have no relevance to a discussion about why we are not performing as well as our counterparts?

I love Rafa, I will support him come what may, I want NO other manager in charge, but I refuse to be blind to the fact that, like all other managers/humans, he has weaknesses, and waiting to long to make much needed substitutions is one of them.

Like I would with one of my employees, I would like and expect him to address these weaknesses and work towards resolving them/improving upon them. Is that SO bad/unreasonable?

[Tom]

But the yanks have backed him this summer, and Rafa's signings have delievered.

Let's wait and see what happens in January and next summer.

And if we do sell some players to fund other deals, so what? Most would agree than Pennant, Sissoko, Riise, Carson and Kuyt should be sold, it just makes good business sense.

The bottom line is that we improve the side, how it's done is irrelevant, and so far Rafa's done a good job of that.

Net spend this summer was slightly higher than normal. Sunderland outspent us. The mancs as per usual outspent as by miles like they've done for well over a decade. It's really not rocket science Nial.

[kemm1]

Remember Barcelona bough the likes of Messi at a very young age fro nothing. When was the last time LFC nurtered a young star through?

Gerrard.

That has nothing to with Rafa, Hicks or Gillette so what's your point?

[Nic83]

Have you got some kind of pea-brain? I'll spell it out for you. Answering a question about the relative spending of 2 clubs with an opinion about substitions is deliberately going off-topic.

He wasn't answering a question. He was coming at you from his own angle but you're a little too lacking up there to see that obviously. talk about a one track mind.... think before you post head the ball. ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........

[wiw]

But the yanks have backed him this summer, and Rafa's signings have delievered.

Let's wait and see what happens in January and next summer.

And if we do sell some players to fund other deals, so what? Most would agree than Pennant, Sissoko, Riise, Carson and Kuyt should be sold, it just makes good business sense.

The bottom line is that we improve the side, how it's done is irrelevant, and so far Rafa's done a good job of that.

He has done a good job, and mainly with one hand tied behind his back. He's completely transformed the squad with limited money, imo VERY cleverly. With the overall standard of player now up it's pretty clear to everyone who are the weak links, including Rafa (surely?). I still think we'll come close this season, today was just a bit typical really

[Tom]

How has Rafa's unwillingness to make positive substitutions earlier in the game have no relevance to a discussion about why we are not performing as well as our counterparts?

Because he was answering my post about finances with one about subsitutions that's why.

[Nic83]

That has nothing to with Rafa, Hicks or Gillette so what's your point?

How does it not have anything to do with them?!!

Rafa is the manager and Hicks and Gillette fund him!

My point is obviously that there's other ways of bringing top talent through. Obviously. It baffles me that you didn't see what my point was.

[Guest]

But the yanks have backed him this summer, and Rafa's signings have delievered.

Let's wait and see what happens in January and next summer.

And if we do sell some players to fund other deals, so what? Most would agree than Pennant, Sissoko, Riise, Carson and Kuyt should be sold, it just makes good business sense.

The bottom line is that we improve the side, how it's done is irrelevant, and so far Rafa's done a good job of that.

He has been backed on Torres only. All the other players were signed with CL money and sales.

[Tom]

He wasn't answering a question. He was coming at you from his own angle but you're a little too lacking up there to see that obviously. talk about a one track mind.... think before you post head the ball. ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........

Because he didn't have a decent counter-argument my cranially challenged friend.

[Nic83]

The financial gap between valencia and barca and real is nowhere near that of the premiership.

OH dear god!!!

Actually you're right, it's far FAR bigger. i suggest you do some research. Real and Barca's budget is 3/4 times that of Valencia

[kemm1]

How does it not have anything to do with them?!!

Rafa is the manager and Hicks and Gillette fund him!

My point is obviously that there's other ways of bringing top talent through. Obviously. It baffles me that you didn't see what my point was.

Historically not producing academy players HAD nothing to with them, wait a few years and see what happens ............... understand that little boy?