Wigan Post Match

[Guest]

I agree with you that I didn't think we were that bad tonight. It's true we are progressing ...but only in certain areas. When we're good, we're very good. But our empty, nothingness, and dire displays are too frequent too be just "one of those things" and since the bar has been raised in the the prem in the last 3-4 years, we really can't afford such regular lapses. And Rafa is responsible for these being too frequent in not allowing the team to flow, due to his constant changing iof personnel and systems. Add to that his poor record of signing top class attacking players and failing to get the best out of the 2nd rate ones we have - you begin to see Rafa's failings.

An example is that at 60 mins we still hadn't looked like we were getting No.2. That was the time to try and grab the game by the balls and force things, not wait to bring 2 strikers on until the last 5 mins.

The only thing I can think of is maybe Rafa has buyers for Crouch or Kuyt lined up and he didn't want to risk either of them getting injured.

I think you've made some good points in the face of a barrage tonight. But in a nutshell Rafa has got it wrong. TO turn it round HE needs to to change - but sadly like most of us who think we are right, he is set in his ways .

Sadly I think this will be his downfall. And ironic too considering Houllier went the same way.

Good post Colin.

Mate I think Rafa being stubborn is a quality because he won't be changing his style just to suit what us supporters think should be done. What would be his personality then ?

Fergie is an old stubborn git alright and continued to play Tevez and Rooney upfront when everyone thought they wouldn't click. He was proved right but he has the players to do that. He's got the money to buy them.

Ask Wenger or Fergie if the criticisms aimed at Rafa is right. Yes he has some failings but who doesn't have them ?

We should probably be a bit more realistic and still, there's 18 matches still to be played.

[Howard_lfc]

How do you feel about it, Les? As you know I never went tonight so I'm not sure what the general concensus is inside the ground.

Was the reaction at full time that bad? Did we play that poorly? Was the atmosphere that ****e?

Gutted Scott.

We were ****e and scored from the one piece of good movement (Finnan) privided in the 90 mins. The midfield was all over the place and down our left side we were atrocious. The defence looked nervous without Sami.
We got the goal and then sat back - again. Lessons from Derby not learned. We were waiting for them to score from there one opportunity and then sure enough.........we tried to rally but it was too late. The stats will prove we had 80% of the possession and around 20 efforts on goal; the papers this moring will say we drew 1-1. Enough said.

There are enough posts about Rafa today so I wont go there in detail. Needless to say I'm of the opinion that he cocked it up last night with his negativity, tactical arrogance and his obsession for 'controlling the game'.

[Red_Al_77]

Fredo,

Take it from me mate that you see far more actually at the ground than on TV. I've been watching streams since they were invented and have only missed matched due to being on holiday. Yet I still see more of the game when I go to Anfield or on an away day. TV allows you to see what's happening where the ball is. The human eye takes in the whole pitch and thus player positioning, player movement etc etc.

[kurtangle01]

Gutted Scott.

We were ****e and scored from the one piece of good movement (Finnan) privided in the 90 mins. The midfield was all over the place and down our left side we were atrocious. The defence looked nervous without Sami.
We got the goal and then sat back - again. Lessons from Derby not learned. We were waiting for them to score from there one opportunity and then sure enough.........we tried to rally but it was too late. The stats will prove we had 80% of the possession and around 20 efforts on goal; the papers this moring will say we drew 1-1. Enough said.

There are enough posts about Rafa today so I wont go there in detail. Needless to say I'm of the opinion that he cocked it up last night with his negativity, tactical arrogance and his obsession for 'controlling the game'.

I'm still feeling a bit gutted myself to be honest.

The most disspointing thing for me is that the team just doesn't seem to have the heart for the fight. They want to win the league but they don't seem to have the ruthless mentality to do it.

Until we start being more ruthless and killing teams off results like last night will continue.

[Skillz]

I'm still feeling a bit gutted myself to be honest.

The most disspointing thing for me is that the team just doesn't seem to have the heart for the fight. They want to win the league but they don't seem to have the ruthless mentality to do it.

Until we start being more ruthless and killing teams off results like last night will continue.

Whilst I see your point I do not completely agree. There was evidence of this last night though. In the last ten minutes we just disintegrated. I think was largely due to frustration and anxiety as they knew the PL season was on the line, as did the fans.

Previously this hasn't been the case when in a similar situation IMO. Against City for example, we battered them in the last 10 minutes.

TBH i think our inability to breakdown the buses that regularly line up at Anfield may be Rafa's undoing. To me this is caused by a lack of funds to buy "class" forwards/wingers.

[disco]

DJS is one of the best posters in here. He's stubborn, doesn't change his opinions like he changes socks and fights tooth and nails for what he believes in. It may not be to everyone's taste but eh, I know what that means.

He's never abused people unless he's been abused. That's what is missing in here Johnny. A proper debate without the WUM's or moaners.

I was shocked last night seeing sensible posters getting on Rafa's back, and that's why I again went into arguments. Just trying to offer a bit of balance and perspective when anyone is doom mongering.

FOR ****S SAKE GO TO BED!

DJS one of the best posters Sorry DJS, you've been Fredo'd

[Skillz]

FOR ****S SAKE GO TO BED!

DJS one of the best posters Sorry DJS, you've been Fredo'd

It's a bit scary actually. What if they team up against us

[RoadEnd]

If anyone went to the match last night and bought a programme - read the Gerrard column.

It made me cough up my pie at HT.

[AFII]

If anyone went to the match last night and bought a programme - read the Gerrard column.

It made me cough up my pie at HT.

In short, what did he say?

[blacky]

Right I have calmed down a bit this morning.......went straight to bed after the game and was highly annoyed and depressed. In the cold light of day this is what I think:

1. Rafa is a very good manager but is not the finished article. Last night showed that he still has not come to terms with what is needed to win the premiership. He still needs another season or two aswell as the financial support of the yanks but he needs to rake a look at how he approaches certain games and change his own way of thinking.
2. We should never have played with 2 defensive midfielders last night, at home against relegation teams an early goal is key as they come for a draw.
3. Babel should have been on the bench as his pace would have caused wigan all sorts of problems
4. When has Crouch ever come on with 7 mins to go and changed a game?
5. Why does Rafa think Kuyt can play right wing?
6. Harry Kewell's best days are a thing of the past. He was very ineffective last night. Should have at least hit the target with the chance he had just before he was taken off.
7. The team has a fabulous spine with Pepe, Agger, Carra, Masch, Alonso, SG and Torres but full back area's and especially both wings are where we struggle. No penetration or goal threat from these area's.
8. A strike partner for Torres is essential. If Crouch, Kuyt or Voronin where not good enough to play against Wigan at home then obviously Rafa feels the same.

I could rant all day. I do think we are a better team than we were under Ged, I do believe Rafa is the man to bring us #19 but I don't think it will be this year sadly. We are too far off the pace and I can't all of a sudden see us putting a run of 10 wins together. I'll settle for a cup but like you all I crave the title and I fear for our long term hopes if the americans do not support our manager with an adequate budget as the quality of player we need costs money similar to what we spend on Torres.

[disco]

Yes, wingers ****ed us last night.

[RoadEnd]

In short, what did he say?

About Steve Bruce and Wigan

"......He brought Birmingham here earlier this season and it was one of the most frustrating games of the season. They defended for 90 minutes and, fair play to them, they did it well and we couldn't find a way past them.

It's up to us to find a way round those tactics and we couldn't on that day.

A point would be priceless for Wigan here so we expect the same sort of set up from them as Birmingham used. But today we wont accept a repeat of that goalless draw.

If we play like we can, and use the ball intelligently, then we fancy ourselves to score goals.

[disco]

It's a bit scary actually. What if they team up against us

**** me, with their unerring ability to repeat the same argument over and over and everyone else is wrong attitude this behemoth of forum ****wittery would be as belligerent as a rottweiller after you just nicked their bone and tazered them it in the testicles with a cattle rod.

(that took me ages to come up with )

[AFII]

About Steve Bruce and Wigan

"......He brought Birmingham here earlier this season and it was one of the most frustrating games of the season. They defended for 90 minutes and, fair play to them, they did it well and we couldn't find a way past them.

It's up to us to find a way round those tactics and we couldn't on that day.

A point would be priceless for Wigan here so we expect the same sort of set up from them as Birmingham used. But today we wont accept a repeat of that goalless draw.

If we play like we can, and use the ball intelligently, then we fancy ourselves to score goals.

[RoadEnd]

About Steve Bruce and Wigan

"......He brought Birmingham here earlier this season and it was one of the most frustrating games of the season. They defended for 90 minutes and, fair play to them, they did it well and we couldn't find a way past them.

It's up to us to find a way round those tactics and we couldn't on that day.

A point would be priceless for Wigan here so we expect the same sort of set up from them as Birmingham used. But today we wont accept a repeat of that goalless draw.

If we play like we can, and use the ball intelligently, then we fancy ourselves to score goals.

That is what frustrates me.

The players and the manager know what to expect. This display has happened against similar teams who come and park the bus in front of goal. Surely, we must have the tactics and players to deal with this.

To cap it all - I got stopped by the police on the M6 going home at 97 mph.

Luckily the copper was a Liverpool fan and offered me 3 points and a £60 fine as opposed to a court appearance and the loss of my licence. He said that despite the speed, my lane discipline was good

I dread to think what would have happened if he was a Manc - as I approached their car on the hard shoulder wearing my Liverpool jersey.