Xabi Or Masher?...You decide.

[paulcooper4]

Alonso on form easily.

Masch coming out with that manure rubbish midweek didnt help either.

what did he come out with?

[dww]

I prefer to take the long-view. I'm not interested in compromises or compensations and there are too many of those with Alonso. I'm coming around to the idea that we will never win the Premiership building our side around such a one-dimensional player who's skills are not perfectly suited to English football. Mascherano and Gerrard is a much more natural fit - I have a vision of those two at the heart of our midfield with a more technical auxillary forward supporting Torres and more penetration from the wings with no compromises and everybody in their natural position.

I think that getting rid of Alonso would be a huge mistake and I feel our best games come with him in the. In making a team you have to make compromises and compensations it's the nature of the beast.

You compromise passing creativity for ball winning with Mascher as you have already said. I feel that overall this tends to weaken a side when we should be looking to dominate. I actually believe that in term of a shield while less dynamic Alonso is not that much worse than Mascher as his positioning is very intelligent. I accept what you are saying is part of the hypothetical in which case it is simply a case of differing footballing ideas and you have to make a choice in terms of buying and selling players with the long term in mind.

In reality we also have to face facts that we have in the short term to try and win things. For me a lot of the time putting a holding midfielder in the team without attacking fullbacks or wingers to compensate is a defensive minded compromise. It wouldn't be if other parts of our team were playing better or of higher standard but right now I think it is.

I feel we need both options in the squad, for me United have an excellent mix of CM players and we should be looking to have a comparable selection to allow us to meet the variety of challenges in the league and CL. However if you have to have one or the other I would always go with Alonso who I feel is a negligible compromise in the PL and the similar but inferior in my view Flamini is performing the job excellently at Arsenal.

[dww]

what did he come out with?

There's an article on a blog, which was lifted from a Man United forum which claims the source as a Spanish language website. It's in the Mascher thread somewhere - looks to me like a hoax as the wording of some of it is similar to the interview that was in the press the other week saying he wouldn't go to another English club.

[CAD]

What are we debating? Which player is the best HM? Surely not?!

[tomasjj]

This isn't a smear campaign.

No, of course not mate.

That is not what I meant.

[Alpha]

I think that getting rid of Alonso would be a huge mistake and I feel our best games come with him in the. In making a team you have to make compromises and compensations it's the nature of the beast.

You compromise passing creativity for ball winning with Mascher as you have already said. I feel that overall this tends to weaken a side when we should be looking to dominate. I actually believe that in term of a shield while less dynamic Alonso is not that much worse than Mascher as his positioning is very intelligent. I accept what you are saying is part of the hypothetical in which case it is simply a case of differing footballing ideas and you have to make a choice in terms of buying and selling players with the long term in mind.

In reality we also have to face facts that we have in the short term to try and win things. For me a lot of the time putting a holding midfielder in the team without attacking fullbacks or wingers to compensate is a defensive minded compromise. It wouldn't be if other parts of our team were playing better or of higher standard but right now I think it is.

I feel we need both options in the squad, for me United have an excellent mix of CM players and we should be looking to have a comparable selection to allow us to meet the variety of challenges in the league and CL. However if you have to have one or the other I would always go with Alonso who I feel is a negligible compromise in the PL and the similar but inferior in my view Fabregas is performing the job excellently at Arsenal.

Compromises and compensations are hallmarks of teams that aren't quite good enough to win major honours.

In my idealistic vision, midfield creativity is not compromised at all. It is re-assigned to Steven Gerrard who, although an inferior ball-player, is a much better ball-carrier. And Alonso is a noticeabely worse ball-winner than Mascherano because he cannot cover the same ground nor can he tackle as emphatically or as cleanly as Masher. His intelligent positioning is useful but again, it is compensating.

As Rafa stated recently, Mascherano allows our attacking players to concentrate on attacking. We do have attacking fullbacks and wingers - they are just not good enough, regardless of who is feeding them. If anything, Masher's organisational skills are more of a help to them than a hindrance because he assumes more of their defence responsibility. We are a much better balanced outift with Mascherano.

I agree we need both options. They are both the best at what they do and both two of our biggest assets. But I don't think the Fabregas comparison is valid at all. Cesc takes up positions and looks to receive the ball in areas of the final third that would give Alonso a nosebleed.

[CAD]

Compromises and compensations are hallmarks of teams that aren't quite good enough to win major honours.

In my idealistic vision, midfield creativity is not compromised at all. It is re-assigned to Steven Gerrard who, although an inferior ball-player, is a much better ball-carrier. And Alonso is a noticeabely worse ball-winner than Mascherano because he cannot cover the same ground nor can he tackle as emphatically or as cleanly as Masher. His intelligent positioning is useful but again, it is compensating.

As Rafa stated recently, Mascherano allows our attacking players to concentrate on attacking. We do have attacking fullbacks and wingers - they are just not good enough, regardless of who is feeding them. If anything, Masher's organisational skills are more of a help to them than a hindrance because he assumes more of their defence responsibility. We are a much better balanced outift with Mascherano.

I agree we need both options. They are both the best at what they do and both two of our biggest assets.

Good post - agree with almost all of it.

But I don't think the Fabregas comparison is valid at all. Cesc takes up positions and looks to receive the ball in areas of the final third that would give Alonso a nosebleed.

And then some. I'm a little shocked that DWW would even go that far TBH.

[MerseyCider]

There's an article on a blog, which was lifted from a Man United forum which claims the source as a Spanish language website. It's in the Mascher thread somewhere - looks to me like a hoax as the wording of some of it is similar to the interview that was in the press the other week saying he wouldn't go to another English club.

I hope thats the case.

Either way, Alonso for me, though I hope we keep both. Its a squad game after all.

[yukpo]

im not a fickle cunt so id keep alonso and use the money that would sign mascherano on a CB and anelka

[dww]

Compromises and compensations are hallmarks of teams that aren't quite good enough to win major honours.

In my idealistic vision, midfield creativity is not compromised at all. It is re-assigned to Steven Gerrard who, although an inferior ball-player, is a much better ball-carrier. And Alonso is a noticeabely worse ball-winner than Mascherano because he cannot cover the same ground nor can he tackle as emphatically or as cleanly as Masher. His intelligent positioning is useful but again, it is compensating.

As Rafa stated recently, Mascherano allows our attacking players to concentrate on attacking. We do have attacking fullbacks and wingers - they are just not good enough, regardless of who is feeding them. If anything, Masher's organisational skills are more of a help to them than a hindrance because he assumes more of their defence responsibility. We are a much better balanced outift with Mascherano.

I agree we need both options. They are both the best at what they do and both two of our biggest assets. But I don't think the Fabregas comparison is valid at all. Cesc takes up positions and looks to receive the ball in areas of the final third that would give Alonso a nosebleed.

Good post - agree with almost all of it.

But I don't think the Fabregas comparison is valid at all. Cesc takes up positions and looks to receive the ball in areas of the final third that would give Alonso a nosebleed.

And then some. I'm a little shocked that DWW would even go that far TBH.

Would have made more sense if I had put Flamini as I intended to. I'm going to edit my original post so fewer people think I'm a complete moron in future

[CAD]

Would have made more sense if I had put Flamini as I intended to. I'm going to edit my original post so fewer people think I'm a complete moron in future

What a relieve DWW. I couldn't believe it when I read Fabregas.

[GordonGecko]

Right, it seems that masher won.....i'll phone up Rafa & let him know