Xabi Or Masher?...You decide.

[CAD]

how many other players on our team could you say this about? and this is a criticism? we could do with a least half a dozen more first teamers who can regularly play a ball to a teammate.

Remember the run Gerrard made against the Bitters this season? All the way from the midfield towards the goal. Never in a million years would Alonso make a run like that. for many reason but mostly because he can't. You need pace and grit from your advanced midfielder. If all you can do is pass you will be shut down in the PL. Consider the first season Alonso played for us. He sprayed passes all over the field. Looked like a million. Or several millions obviously. Next season the managers were on to him and he was marked much closer. And he had no answer. He can't dribble his opponent. He has little pace. He has his passing and as long as the opposition sits close he will drop deeper and deeper to get more space. This is not what you want from a creative CM. He is nowhere near as effective at CM as Gerrard and never will be. When you start to look at his goal ratio as an advanced midfielder, things get really depressive.

Other than that; yes - I wish we had better consistent passers of the ball

[Alpha]

i've got to say that i think this is far more an indication of our poor movement off the ball than a problem with a player who can hold on to the ball in midfield.

Perhaps it is.

Either way, Alonso is less effective.

[Johnny]

Remember the run Gerrard made against the Bitters this season? All the way from the midfield towards the goal. Never in a million years would Alonso make a run like that.

Why would our defensive midfielder leave our defense vunerable to make a Gerrardesque run forward.It`s not his job???

Gerrard is an attacking midfielder,Xabi is not.

[CAD]

Why would our defensive midfielder leave our defense vunerable to make a Gerrardesque run forward.It`s not his job???

Gerrard is an attacking midfielder,Xabi is not.

We're discussing whether Alonso or SG should be playing the creative CM pos. Mascher as HM and SG on the right. Look up thread.

And I remember you WellHard. Don't recall that we ever had anykind of problem on SCM. Strange...

[Johnny]

We're discussing whether Alonso or SG should be playing the creative CM pos. Mascher as HM and SG on the right. Look up thread.

And I remember you WellHard. Don't recall that we ever had anykind of problem on SCM. Strange...

I commented on a piece of one off your posts,that`s all.

On 6cm i had bigger fish to fry than you.

Your constant negativity annoys me on this site.
I rarely answer one off your posts to avoid confrontation but sometimes you take it too far.

[CAD]

I commented on a piece of one off your posts,that`s all.

On 6cm i had bigger fish to fry than you.

Your constant negativity annoys me on this site.
I rarely answer one off your posts to avoid confrontation but sometimes you take it too far.

Constant negativity - You're pissing in the wind Johnny boy. I know that you will never try to back it up because you're too lazy but if you looked through my posts you would realise that it's utter bollocks what your're saying. I am not negative all the time.

I have lots of hangups in regards to your posting style but you won't see me running around here trying to stab you in the back because of it. The way I see it Est is more than big enough for all of us.

[Johnny]

Constant negativity - You're pissing in the wind Johnny boy. I know that you will never try to back it up because you're too lazy but if you looked through my posts you would realise that it's utter bollocks what your're saying. I am not negative all the time.

I have lots of hangups in regards to your posting style but you won't see me running around here trying to stab you in the back because of it. The way I see it Est is more than big enough for all of us.

This style of posting is best left to 6CM.


I also leave you alone on this site because i`d like to see this site not descend into slagging.

[tomasjj]

i've got to say that i think this is far more an indication of our poor movement off the ball than a problem with a player who can hold on to the ball in midfield.

It has come to the point that Alonso's qualities are often even used against him in arguments. Odd.

[Alpha]

It has come to the point that Alonso's qualities are often even used against him in arguments. Odd.

This isn't a smear campaign.

[dww]

Our lack of quality in wide areas does not reduce the effect of Mascherano's primary work. i.e. winning the ball. He can still do what he does and patrol the midfield, fly into tackles and pick up second balls

But our lack of quality in wide areas does reduce the effect of Alonso's primary work. i.e. passing the ball. The impact of Xabi's quality is greatly reduced by a lack of players with the ability to take advantage of it.

Yes but because Alonso can move the ball on his own the loss of personal effectiveness has less effect on the team as a whole IMO. With Mascher in there at present we are merely taking out a creative option to bulk up the defense in my opinion. He is not freeing anyone to do any more attacking as he might in a different team.

Why do you think we are so often accused of struggling to break teams down? One key reason is Alonso's dwelling on the ball while he is seeking the right pass to make. More often than not, he makes that pass but not before the opposition have had time to organise themselves and regroup.

Gerrard does not have Alonso's range but he does have a greater sense of urgency. With Alonso, the transition between defence and attack can take an age.

I put that down to a lack of willing runners and poor movement by our attacking players.

Gerrard has a greater sense of urgency but when he drops deep this results in too many long balls which return possession to the opposition IMO.

I take the point that while Gerrard is dropping deep to play the ball, he isn't available to receive it but to me, that indicates the problem is the lack of a genuine quality link-man more than Stevie's role in the team. As TomasJJ said earlier, Gerrard may not be smart enough to be the creative force. I agree and this brings me back to our difficulty breaking teams down, especially when Gerrard plays your preferred role of between the lines.

My point is what is best given what we have. Whether the problem is intrinsic to the Gerrard - Mascher partnership or to it within our current setup is a moot point at present.

My preferred role is not between the lines but closer to the position sometimes occupied by Lampard for Chelsea. A definite attacking one ahead of a tight players but not playing in 'the whole' as such. I think that at present we have to make a compromise and that for me is about as good as we can do and would be improved by improved for or productivity from our wide players.

Ideally I like a fluid three behind one if you release Gerrard into purely attacking midfield and at times I think we have done this in the past when Gerrard has been nominally on the right. It does require the other players to be willing to go wide when necessary and to move to accommodate each others freer movements.

[badpiggy]

Yes but because Alonso can move the ball on his own the loss of personal effectiveness has less effect on the team as a whole IMO. With Mascher in there at present we are merely taking out a creative option to bulk up the defense in my opinion. He is not freeing anyone to do any more attacking as he might in a different team.



I put that down to a lack of willing runners and poor movement by our attacking players.

Gerrard has a greater sense of urgency but when he drops deep this results in too many long balls which return possession to the opposition IMO.



My point is what is best given what we have. Whether the problem is intrinsic to the Gerrard - Mascher partnership or to it within our current setup is a moot point at present.

My preferred role is not between the lines but closer to the position sometimes occupied by Lampard for Chelsea. A definite attacking one ahead of a tight players but not playing in 'the whole' as such. I think that at present we have to make a compromise and that for me is about as good as we can do and would be improved by improved for or productivity from our wide players.

Ideally I like a fluid three behind one if you release Gerrard into purely attacking midfield and at times I think we have done this in the past when Gerrard has been nominally on the right. It does require the other players to be willing to go wide when necessary and to move to accommodate each others freer movements.

saved me the hassle of answering! wow - finding out that dww thinks the same thing as you gives a warm fuzzy feeling. kinda like being rolled up in a flammable blankey and smoked by sean lfc.

[Kopite_Colin]

Alsonso and Lucas were utter, utter rubbish today.

[dww]

saved me the hassle of answering! wow - finding out that dww thinks the same thing as you gives a warm fuzzy feeling. kinda like being rolled up in a flammable blankey and smoked by sean lfc.

[Alpha]

Yes but because Alonso can move the ball on his own the loss of personal effectiveness has less effect on the team as a whole IMO. With Mascher in there at present we are merely taking out a creative option to bulk up the defense in my opinion. He is not freeing anyone to do any more attacking as he might in a different team.


Let's not split hairs. It seems to me we are agreeing that we don't have the personnel to take full advantage of either Alonso's ball-playing or Mascherano's ball-winning. You can argue that Xabi's range compensates and I can argue that Masher's quick turnover does. But let's remember that Mascherano can play the ball already and is only going to improve whereas Xabi does not have the mobility or dynamism to improve his ball-winning capabilities.


I put that down to a lack of willing runners and poor movement by our attacking players.

Gerrard has a greater sense of urgency but when he drops deep this results in too many long balls which return possession to the opposition IMO.


Whatever you put it down to, it doesn't work. Gerrard understands that sometimes it is better to risk conceding possession if there is a chance to release somebody and this, combined with Mascherano's ball-winning, is another reason you can add to the list why they complement eachother better than Mr Possession does. I'm all for keeping the ball but it doesn't always work, especially in the cut-and-thrust of high-tempo English football. We need the extra-dimension Mascherano gives us far more than we need Alonso's passing excellence.


My point is what is best given what we have. Whether the problem is intrinsic to the Gerrard - Mascher partnership or to it within our current setup is a moot point at present.

My preferred role is not between the lines but closer to the position sometimes occupied by Lampard for Chelsea. A definite attacking one ahead of a tight players but not playing in 'the whole' as such. I think that at present we have to make a compromise and that for me is about as good as we can do and would be improved by improved for or productivity from our wide players.

Ideally I like a fluid three behind one if you release Gerrard into purely attacking midfield and at times I think we have done this in the past when Gerrard has been nominally on the right. It does require the other players to be willing to go wide when necessary and to move to accommodate each others freer movements.

I prefer to take the long-view. I'm not interested in compromises or compensations and there are too many of those with Alonso. I'm coming around to the idea that we will never win the Premiership building our side around such a one-dimensional player who's skills are not perfectly suited to English football. Mascherano and Gerrard is a much more natural fit - I have a vision of those two at the heart of our midfield with a more technical auxillary forward supporting Torres and more penetration from the wings with no compromises and everybody in their natural position.

[MerseyCider]

Alonso on form easily.

Masch coming out with that manure rubbish midweek didnt help either.