For once and for all...

[sonsofthedesert]

Ok, you got my attention so what do you want to say?

[Manofthebog]

my willies bigger than your willy

[Neil Young]

I think the point that the Premiership requires a different approach to win it is a completely valid one that Rafa hasn't really come to terms with.

If you look at his second title success, where Barca and Real were at least a little closer, he lost at home to Osasuna, Albacete and Racing (teams that finished 13th, 14th and 16th respectively in the league) and drew with Vallodolid and Celta (finished 18th and 19th).

Now compare that to our league and it would be the equivalent of losing to Reading, Bolton and Birmingham at home, whilst drawing with Sunderland and Fulham. Those kind of results kill you in the Premiership, yet in Spain he was able to endure those and still win the title by 5 points, largely because of extremely strong away form and getting good results against the big teams - beating Barca twice, taking 4 points off Madrid and sharing the spoils with Depor.

The main reason I believe is because the Premiership is overall defensively stronger than in Spain, particularly at the higher levels. Teams like Utd, Chelsea and even Arsenal are a lot more resilient than their Spanish counterparts. We saw this against Barca ourselves last season when they defended like clowns for our goals. The key to Rafa's success over there was his own defensive qualities, making his team very difficult to beat by being extremely solid - particularly away from home.

You're clutching at straws. It's an interesting perspective but it doesn't prove anything at all.

Past performance is not a guide to future performance.

[The Birdman]

I can't be arsed to read 4 pages of another thread posted specifically to slag off our manager.
At the risk of repeating what someone else may have posted (like I said I'm not going to read it) has it occured to you that Rafa may know the same statistics as you?? given that he bases a lot of his selection on stats.
Pointless thread

[FatTony]

I'm glad for you that you think your opinions are so much better than anybody else' that they require their own thread!

[bigfooty]

Past performance is not a guide to future performance.

That's a rather odd statement to make considering most people back Rafa because of Istanbul and the decent effort of 2005-2006.

[Neil Young]

That's a rather odd statement to make considering most people back Rafa because of Istanbul and the decent effort of 2005-2006.

Is it? I don't think so.

[FatTony]

You could argue that La Liga has far more depth than the Premiership and therefore both a win and a draw are harder results to achieve and will, over the course of a season, make up the 10 or so points difference.

[Neil Young]

You could argue that La Liga has far more depth than the Premiership and therefore both a win and a draw are harder results to achieve and will, over the course of a season, make up the 10 or so points difference.

Not if you want to find an argument that "proves" Rafa will never win the Premiership.

[Vermilion]

As I said on the other thread this is very interesting but not relevant mate.

By your logic, no winning manager og La Liga would win the league here as they are used to winning the title with lless points than is usually possible here. So bang goes Capello and Riykaard and anyone else who has won La Liga as well.

Also Serie A is a similar story. apart from last year when Inter scooted in with 90 odd points, its regularly own with 78 to 82 points which would be useless in England as far as title wins goes. So any Serie A title winner is out as well for LFC. That means bye bye to Capello again, Lippi, Mancini etc.

Great reply, and so true.

[Ritchi3]

Of course it's relevant bob. As i said, my logic ISNT saying no La Liga winner can win the PL.

But it IS pointing out how different the requirements are. In La Liga, you CAN afford to chop and change all the time, rest players and inevitably drop points...and still win the title.

So if a La Liga winning manager does use Rafa's approach to win La Liga, he definitely can still win the PL - but not with the same approach. Unfortunately, Rafa insists on using the same methods to tackle a more different and much more difficult task.

One does not imply the other. You're assuming that because Rafa won with rotation in Spain, that it can't be done here because the points tally is generally lower there. Well other teams have won the title in Spain without using rotation, does that mean you can't do it here without rotation, because of the points tallies?

One has got absolutely nothing to do with the other. You can't even deduce if one league is tougher than the other from it. You could deduce that Spain is more balanced and therefore tougher, or that there is less margin for error in England and therefore tougher.

[nbryan1764]

I couldn;t be arsed to read through all of the arguments so what I am saying may be a repeat, so apologies if it is.

The argument that DJS makes regarding points tallies is irrelevant as there could be more teams good enough to win the title. If there was a big 8 for example here where those teams took points off each other then the winning tally woud generally be less than it has been.

However the methods used in winning La Liga v Premiership can and are very different. This is not really a new or ground breaking argument, Rafa is better at managing teams in a European style game. Our runs in the Champions League have proved that. Yet he has not appeared to adapt styles to be better in the Premiership. He does seem to be trying to win the Premiership using La Liga strategy. It is never going to work.

I think he is good enough to win us the leagu but he needs to adapt and realise there are points that he has been wrong. Tactically I still think he is fantastic but strategically he needs to change a little to win the league. Plus he could do with some extra cash to bring in real world class al la Torres

[Craig_H]

I couldn;t be arsed to read through all of the arguments so what I am saying may be a repeat, so apologies if it is.

The argument that DJS makes regarding points tallies is irrelevant as there could be more teams good enough to win the title. If there was a big 8 for example here where those teams took points off each other then the winning tally woud generally be less than it has been.

However the methods used in winning La Liga v Premiership can and are very different. This is not really a new or ground breaking argument, Rafa is better at managing teams in a European style game. Our runs in the Champions League have proved that. Yet he has not appeared to adapt styles to be better in the Premiership. He does seem to be trying to win the Premiership using La Liga strategy. It is never going to work.

I think he is good enough to win us the leagu but he needs to adapt and realise there are points that he has been wrong. Tactically I still think he is fantastic but strategically he needs to change a little to win the league. Plus he could do with some extra cash to bring in real world class al la Torres

'Could be' ? But there arent, are there? Spain, like most leagues, has 2 or 3 sides who can realistically win the title, and the rest are also-rans. Same as england and Italy. So your example of a 'big 8' is all well and good, but it's more irrelevant than anything i've said, because frankly, there ARENT a big 8.

Agree with most of the other stuff you've said.

[Frank Leroux]

However the methods used in winning La Liga v Premiership can and are very different. This is not really a new or ground breaking argument, Rafa is better at managing teams in a European style game. Our runs in the Champions League have proved that. Yet he has not appeared to adapt styles to be better in the Premiership. He does seem to be trying to win the Premiership using La Liga strategy. It is never going to work.

I think he is good enough to win us the leagu but he needs to adapt and realise there are points that he has been wrong. Tactically I still think he is fantastic but strategically he needs to change a little to win the league. Plus he could do with some extra cash to bring in real world class al la Torres

Completely and utterly agree with this, good posting nbryan1764.

[Craig_H]

However the methods used in winning La Liga v Premiership can and are very different. This is not really a new or ground breaking argument

It's not, you're right.

But when discussing their views that Rafa can/will win the PL, so many people site his Valencia achievements as part justification for the view that he'll win the PL too. And i find that absurd.