Dubai International to make bid for Liverpool FC

[Guest]

Where do you think the money will come for transfers disco ? From their own pockets ?

[disco]

Until 2011, sales, increase in ticket prices and increase in merchandise sales........ and new loans.

The 9m is hopelessly out of date now - last accounts are for period almost 18 months old.

Where do you think the money will come for transfers disco ? From their own pockets ?

I want to know if the loan payments come from their own pockets if we don't qualify for CL, or will it be new loans.

[Scratch]

Where do you think the money will come for transfers disco ? From their own pockets ?

Nope, it's been incorporated into the current loan, from what i can understand. The money is there for transfers, £45 million i think it was, plus player sales. That money will probably have to last at least a couple of seasons.

Also, what is to stop them refinancing again, like Arsenal did (somewhere in this thread that was mentioned) many times whilst Emirates was being built?

[carlton]

Not all the 45 mil is for transfers but lets say 30 is and with players sales that could edge up to 45 -50 million over 2 years. Rafa will need to get his transfer dealing absolutely spot on and may have to be ruthless with players who are not performing to a consistently high level; Kuyt, Riise, Pennant, Aurelio, Voronin. If there is a 10 million Kuyt like deal we are in trouble. With a bit of luck 1 or 2 of the juniors will step up and ease the pressure.

[enema of the state]

Lets put it this way, would you give a mortgage to someone who planned to pay it off every year on the basis of his performance bonus? .

yes - this happens every day of the week

[sonsofthedesert]

I'm more concerned about the loan having an 18 month term as I keep on reading, if they have to repay it in 18 months they have surely just delayed a problem instead of solving it.

[AFII]

Not all the 45 mil is for transfers but lets say 30 is and with players sales that could edge up to 45 -50 million over 2 years. Rafa will need to get his transfer dealing absolutely spot on and may have to be ruthless with players who are not performing to a consistently high level; Kuyt, Riise, Pennant, Aurelio, Voronin. If there is a 10 million Kuyt like deal we are in trouble. With a bit of luck 1 or 2 of the juniors will step up and ease the pressure.

A part of the £45m will probably be used if we can't pay off the £30m interest.

[Danish_Pastry]

.....




and still nobody can tell us where the money from last seasons CL-campaign did go, as the transfers from this summer also came on loans. Did they go to higher wages to those players, who got a new contract in september - or did they go towards any previous loans - or into the architechts pockets - or someone else's pocket......


... I could become hard in the future to sing "YNWA", as it could be expensive and lonely!!!

[dww]

I'm more concerned about the loan having an 18 month term as I keep on reading, if they have to repay it in 18 months they have surely just delayed a problem instead of solving it.

Really - to me it just seems sensible with te credit crunch. We will be refinancing as someone said whenever possible to reduce the overall burden on the club. To take a long term loan out during the credit crunch would seem less than well thought out and in 18 months we can refinance and avoid paying any fees for it.

The worry for me is what Tom is articulating in terms of the on going loan repayments possibly being too high unless we always win something. Obviously we all want us to win things but gambling the clubs future on doing so seems daft.

The key is what the contingency plans are for G&H in these sort of circumstances. The obvious problem being that selling assets (i.e. players) will certainly reduce team performance and hence reduce future revenues. The only way out I see would be for them to put in cash (even if it were in the form of some sort of loan) which they seem reluctant to do or sell up. Having a sale in a crisis with administrators potentially involved would obviously be a nightmare (as well as concievably costing us 10 points).

[StevieG08]

I would just like to ask people on here if any of them remember what happened to Leeds. Obviously i know they imploded spectacularly when they failed to make the CL but does anyone remember the sort of debt they had? I was on nights last week and one of the lads i worked with is a huge Leeds fan (he's off to Southend tomorrow night!) and when i was talking about our loan and the fact it included money for transfers he basically said "**** doing that, you'll be the next Leeds!" Anyway i would be interested if anyone recalls the level of debt which screwed Leeds over?

Obviously i have concerns about the level of debt around the club. Also with our current form and the fact we currently sit outside of the CL places. I remember the Leeds boards first action in order to cover the debt was to sell players, i think Ferdinand was the first to go. I'm just wondering if people can see our board selling, perhaps Gerrard in order to cover the interest payment in the event of not making the CL?

[JCase]

I would just like to ask people on here if any of them remember what happened to Leeds. Obviously i know they imploded spectacularly when they failed to make the CL but does anyone remember the sort of debt they had? I was on nights last week and one of the lads i worked with is a huge Leeds fan (he's off to Southend tomorrow night!) and when i was talking about our loan and the fact it included money for transfers he basically said "**** doing that, you'll be the next Leeds!" Anyway i would be interested if anyone recalls the level of debt which screwed Leeds over?

Obviously i have concerns about the level of debt around the club. Also with our current form and the fact we currently sit outside of the CL places. I remember the Leeds boards first action in order to cover the debt was to sell players, i think Ferdinand was the first to go. I'm just wondering if people can see our board selling, perhaps Gerrard in order to cover the interest payment in the event of not making the CL?

Not inconceivable that they may resort to selling players to cover interest repayments. Its a frightening prospect. I wish they just sell up and **** off.

[disco]

Leeds lost £50m in ONE season. CL only covers £15-20m of that. They were buying players well beyond their other revenues for several years. (from 99 onwards)

In the end they had £100m in debt, had to sell Rio and Woodgate to meet payments and then the final nail in the coffin was being relegated.

Basically, they were already ****ed BEFORE the huge expensive loans. At least Liverpool have been generally breaking even whilst being reasonably competitive in the market.

Again, this is before the new TV deal which is giving £20m+ in revenue's per year.

Personally, my instinct is I think the numbers stack up. My concern is the 'bad case scenario' (rather than worst case) where we don't qualify for CL - I fear transfers will be sacrificed to pay the debt. We need answers on that....

[Alpha]

Leeds lost £50m in ONE season. CL only covers £15-20m of that. They were buying players well beyond their other revenues for several years. (from 99 onwards)

In the end they had £100m in debt, had to sell Rio and Woodgate to meet payments and then the final nail in the coffin was being relegated.

Basically, they were already ****ed BEFORE the huge expensive loans. At least Liverpool have been generally breaking even whilst being reasonably competitive in the market.

Again, this is before the new TV deal which is giving £20m+ in revenue's per year.

Personally, my instinct is I think the numbers stack up. My concern is the 'bad case scenario' (rather than worst case) where we don't qualify for CL - I fear transfers will be sacrificed to pay the debt. We need answers on that....

Darren, I think you've gone some way to demonstrating that Hicks and Gillett haven't abandoned all financial responsibility as it might appear.

But it still sickens me that we are in a situation where it is a relief to learn we unlikely to 'do a Leeds' when we were all expecting a takeover would put us in a realistic position to compete for the Premiership.

[StevieG08]

I genuinely believe we will see 'bad case scenario' this season. I know lots of fans think that 4th spot is 'nailed on' but i don't think it is. My gut feeling is, that with our form this season we will lose at least 3 or 4 more games this season which with our draws will put 4th spot in serious doubt. This will have an immediate impact on covering the interest payments.

I've got nothing at all against borrowing large sums of cash in order to see the stadium built. Indeed i'm amazed that Moores and Parry were so short sighted(lacking in guts!) they didn't do it themselves. What does concern me is the track record of Hicks and more specifically the fact that he's got a very bad record for managing debt with his other sports franchises, notably the fact that the parent company of the Dallas Stars hockey team defaulted on their loan that was used to build their stadium. I have a strong feeling that Hicks will 'asset strip' in order to cover payments IF other revenue streams fail to meet the demand which in turn will lead to us 'doing a Leeds'. I would be far more convinced of success if Hicks was not the one pulling the strings.

One final point about the fact that TV revenue has increased since Leeds got into trouble. Perhaps we should compare the wage bill from '99/00 to what we have now. Many of our top players are on or have exceeded the 100k p/w level, also we have about 60+ players on pro contracts now(albeit some of those are on loan), which must be higher than at previous times. My take on things is that although the Tv revenue has increased some of that money will again find it's way into the players pockets and not offset our debt payments.

[disco]

Darren, I think you've gone some way to demonstrating that Hicks and Gillett haven't abandoned all financial responsibility as it might appear.

But it still sickens me that we are in a situation where it is a relief to learn we unlikely to 'do a Leeds' when we were all expecting a takeover would put us in a realistic position to compete for the Premiership.

Money's going to be a bit tight though, it's fair to say.