Dubai International to make bid for Liverpool FC

[CAD]

I don't know if understanding is the right word, but yes people seem to object to them using club money for debt repayment, but (presumably) wouldn't object if they invested in cash and took a (larger) return.

Having said that, I'd personally not be impressed if player purchases were compromised so that the club could pay for THEIR share of the loan, but time will tell on that one.

I agree - we have no way of knowing. To fail with something as fundamental as squadbuilding and funding would be really stupid though, right? The money needed to build the squad is, after all in the big scheme of things, peanuts. Furthermore we now have some players who can actually be sold and provide funding as well. Just 20 mill on top of Crouch and Carson would give us a really great summer window.

[El Jefecito]

Cheers Disco

I think most people have a poor understanding of how investment works.

And are niave about what to expect from the worlds leading leveraged buy out businessman.

[Armchairkopite]

And are niave about what to expect from the worlds leading leveraged buy out businessman.

[CAD]

And are niave about what to expect from the worlds leading leveraged buy out businessman.

What's naive? I await you response with great urgency

Selling of the clubs assests will only result in the club losing value dramatically. They will build the stadium and expect that the future growth in the PL will result in vastly improved revenue in 5 years time. On top the revenue from the new stadium will result in a greatly improved turnover. That's is what they are betting on. They could be wrong of course. But that's business. If they are wrong they will be forced to look for an exit obviously. People here are looking for ulterior motives. What could it be? It's is all their out in the open. They HAVE to invest big time in LFC to get the return they are looking for. To suggest that they won't build the stadium is braindead. It's ****ing stupid to even suggest it. Not even George Bush would entertain such a thought. That's how stupid it is. They will lose their entire investment if they don't build it.

What is Hicks saying:

"Of the £350m refinancing package put in place last week – £105m debt tied to the club – £45m will be used for future player transfers and to meet the club’s working capital needs, while £60m will provide start-up money for the new ground."

“I own three clubs and I have a real passion for all three of them. I think it’s great way to invest my money. I believe in what is going to happen with global television and internet growth for teams."

Aha - he's here because he expects he will make a lot of money in the future. He thinks that globalization will result in massive increased potential for LFC and football in general. Will he invest to make sure that he gets the best possible retun? Will he make sure that we stay competitive until the stadium is in place? Yes! Why? Because it's in his own best interest. He wants this club to succeed even more than we do. He has a three digit million interest ffs.

If LFC continues to make money before interest we will always be attractive for investors. If we do badly and fail to qualify for the CL or lose money in other departments it will only reflect directly on the exit and the money G&H makes when they sell. Worst case scenario is that we fall so low in the ranks that we wont make money before interests are paid. Again, G&H will then lose a lot of money or maybe only break even when the sell. Business is a gamble and of course things and events can ruin any given investment. They think LFC is a good gamble and they have just taken out a loan of about 250mill£ in their own assets. They will probably have to put up more for the next 250mill and they will be forced to do so. LFC can't carry that debt and they know it. They will have to finance LFC until the stadium is in place. To suggest that they are not prepared to do so is nonsensical. It's borderline lobotomy.

It's pretty ****ing straight forward. They have everything to lose if they don't get the turnover and revenue up. They know they have to invest to make it happen. They know they have to keep us at least in top 4 in the meantime

[disco]

I don't think he meant you CAD, so I might edit your post...

[CAD]

I don't think he meant you CAD, so I might edit your post...

Ohh, sorry Speedy

[Alpha]

Take heed Texan sympathisers and apologists:

http://www.anfieldroad.com/news/2008...-support.html/

Be wary of Hicks spin as he fights for Reds support

Posted on January 28th, 2008 by Jim Boardman

Liverpool supporters need to be careful in the coming weeks that they don’t fall for the PR spin that will undoubtedly be served up by Tom Hicks as he aims to get Liverpool supporters falling for his stories and promises once again.

He’ll use the promise of a fancy stadium and the so-called £17m signing of Javier Mascherano to boost his claims that he cares about the club, hoping that we soon forget the lies and deceit of the past few months in particular, but that have been there since the day he first spoke of his plans for the club nearly a year ago.

He’s also keen to try and play on Liverpool supporters’ mistrust of the press, a mistrust that stems back at least to 1989 when The Sun lied about Liverpool supporters and what they had done to their dying and dead fellow supporters on the day of the Hillsborough disaster. Those lies were deeply upsetting, and the ‘newspaper’ was soon boycotted. For a paper that sells over 3 million copies in the UK, it now sells just 12,000 in the Liverpool area - where it used to sell around a quarter of a million.

In deflecting the blame and trying to deny claims about him yesterday, Hicks used the word “tabloid” three times, unprompted, to try and convince listeners that he was the victim of more tabloid lies. But the stories and allegations haven’t just come from the tabloids. The broadsheets have covered the stories, as has the BBC - the whole of the media is in on the truth about Hicks. Using our mistrust of the tabloids won’t work, not for most of us anyway. He even denied having spoken to DIC yesterday, before admitting that he had after all, dismissing it as unimportant because it was “months ago”. It still happened, so denying it is still a lie! And according to more reports, he was still speaking to them last week.

Liverpool supporters certainly gave Hicks the benefit of the doubt, even when the evidence was mounting against him. Where he came unstuck was when Jurgen Klinsmann was offered the job at Bayern and more weight was added to the claims he’d been offered Rafa’s job by the owners. The minute Hicks admitted that any doubters saw the light. Hicks has not been honest. And as soon as they have seen one subject where they were wrong to trust Hicks, they started to question other subjects.

But some supporters are still far too trusting. They already falling for the words Hicks used in his statements on Friday and his interview yesterday and have started to think maybe he’s not so bad after all.

That’s a dangerous approach to take. Hicks does not deserve the benefit of the doubt any longer. Even yesterday he lied about having had contact with DIC, before admitting the truth. The best way he had of getting back the trust of the majority of the Liverpool supporters was to show that the lies were now all in the past. But that’s not how he sees it. He thinks he can still lie to supporters, that they’ll fall for it all again.

So it’s important that we don’t. Listen carefully to what he says. And make sure any supporters you know who don’t have access to the internet are also careful to read and listen carefully.

One subject Hicks will use in the coming days is the signature of Javier Mascherano. Arguably the best holding midfielder in the world - (and if he isn’t now then he soon will be) the Argentinean is currently on an 18-month loan deal at Anfield, which expires in the summer. It’s no secret that there is a £17m agreement in place to see the player stay at Anfield for five more years after that.

Hicks has now told the press that he will allow the signing to go ahead - after he’d blocked it back in October when he told Rafa to shut up and coach.

So, surely, if Hicks is willing to find £17m from somewhere he must have the club’s best interests at heart? Not exactly. But he’ll be happy to see the headlines make it look that way. He will be happy to see the tabloids work for him in this instance. Except the deal isn’t quite what it sounds.

This was rumoured some time ago, but The Liverpool Way fanzine say they’ve now had confirmation that it’s true. The £17m covers everything - the fees to the owners of the player, and the player’s wages - for five years. It doesn’t even have to be paid up-front. The whole amount can be spread over five years, at a rate of under £3.5m per year. Mascherano’s owners will get a fee of a few million - at most £4m if Mascherano’s wages are £50k per week.

With the departure of Momo Sissoko looking close to happening, if not now then in the summer, the club will in effect be better off. They’ll save on Momo’s wages, and they’ll get around £9m in from his transfer. If it all works out then it’s going to be quite a deal, but not because of the generosity of Hicks, purely because of how Rafa will have exchanged Momo for Mascherano, and with change left over.

The same website have also got wind of how a big chunk of money has been spent with little to show for it. £15m has been spent on getting four different sets of plans drawn up for the stadium, and also on the services so far of a consultancy firm who’ll be liaising between the club, the architects and the builders. All that money spent, a third of the amount the club was in debt by prior to the takeover, and nothing more to show for it than some admittedly impressive drawings of a stadium that still can’t be built. There’s going to be another long process needed now to get the various permissions in place, which if successful will mean some work can finally start on building - but not too much, because very little of the required finance is in place for that. The club still need to get a £300m loan before they can finish the stadium, which is already going to be a finished a year later than promised at takeover.

So whilst it seems money is no object when it comes to getting drawings done, there are still issues with Hicks over just how his policy on transfers stands up to scrutiny. Last summer’s spending should not have required any borrowing, the club having brought in more than in previous seasons, and having spent much the same as in previous seasons. The Champions League income alone was higher than the net spending on transfers.

Martin Skrtel’s signature came in January, and is used by Hicks as a pointer to his intentions, to somehow prove that he’s now fully supportive of the boss. Skrtel’s fee was slightly less than Rafa had left over in his budget from the summer after the Gabriel Heinze move fell through, and will be paid in instalments over the next few seasons. The first payment for Javier Mascherano won’t be due until the summer, and in any case it doesn’t take much to work out that Momo Sissoko’s sale (£9m) would be enough to pay for both Mascherano’s first year (£3.4m), and Skrtel’s full fee (£5.6m).

Of course Skrtel’s fee doesn’t have to be paid in full just yet, and with Rafa interested in signing Pablo Aimar, a player he worked with at Valencia from Real Zaragoza, part of the Momo money could be used for the Argentinean playmaker. Whether or not this deal can go through in the last couple of days of the transfer window remains to be seen, if it does then perhaps it will work out that a little investment in the squad has finally been forthcoming, although of course that can soon be cancelled out by sales in the summer.

The big problem here is that we are talking of relatively small amounts of investment in the team after prize money and sales have been taken off. Investment of literally just a few million pounds, when the club is going to have to pay the interest on a massive total of £350m in loans.

Before the takeover we had our eyes on a new stadium and we had debt of around £45m, we also needed investment in the playing squad to allow us to compete with our rivals. A year later and we are now in debt, directly and indirectly, of £350m, and that’s before the stadium costs are included.

This loan has just bought them time, it only lasts for 18 months, and seeing as it’s already taken them 12 months to come up with a set of stadium plans that they think they will be able to afford then it’s easy to see just how short that time is. It took them nearly six months to get this interim loan, how long will it take to get the funding for the stadium. And Hicks refused to speak about the debt when interviewed by Five Live - and so we don’t know what rate of interest this finance has been taken out at. What was Hicks hiding? Where is George Gillett, if the deal is as good as Hicks says?

So please, don’t fall for the Hicks spin, and do all you can to warn fellow supporters, with or without the internet, that the battle mustn’t be allowed to fizzle out now. Hicks is not to be trusted - and even though he asks to be judged on actions instead of other people’s words, his own words are also something he can be judged on. His own words feature lies and broken promises. His actions have seen us lose ground in the battle to be a contender for the title and very little else.

On Thursday night there’s a meeting of various people involved in LFC websites, fanzines, associations, clubs and so on to discuss what can be done to continue putting the pressure on the owners. I’m hoping to be there too. If you’ve got any ideas on showing the owners that this battle goes on, that we won’t be lied to, that we want our club back, if not completely then at least in the hands of owners who think winning might be more important than “fan affinity”, then please either leave them as a comment under this article, or post them on one of the forums of the sites supporting the LFC Supporters Network.

Remember, no matter how much you want to trust Mr Hicks, his past actions have shown that we’ve never got to take his word for it on any issue, at the very, very least we’ve got to let him know that we’re watching his every step. Please don’t let yourselves fall for the spin.

[disco]

Worrying last paragraphs.

Why don’t this group write all the concerns down in a letter, get answers from G&H and then tell them that we expect those answers/promises to be kept?

So far all I read it ‘Right lads, how can we protest this time’? It’s like the Virgin strikes all over again and we look just as stupid.

Rest of the article is pointless. So the various non-forced sales mean we can afford more in the transfer market (either now, or in the summer) - how is this a problem?!

[Alpha]

Worrying last paragraphs.

Why don’t this group write all the concerns down in a letter, get answers from G&H and then tell them that we expect those answers/promises to be kept?

So far all I read it ‘Right lads, how can we protest this time’? It’s like the Virgin strikes all over again and we look just as stupid.

Rest of the article is pointless. So the various non-forced sales mean we can afford more in the transfer market (either now, or in the summer) - how is this a problem?!

Yep.

Don't fight for your club anybody because you will just look stupid.

Write a letter instead and if you ask really nicely, Hicks and Gillett might just keep their promises this time.

[disco]

Yep.

Don't fight for your club anybody because you will just look stupid.

Write a letter instead and if you ask really nicely, Hicks and Gillett might just keep their promises this time.

Not quite what I meant.

Everyone is STILL making assumptions and speculating about certain matters.

Shouldn’t we at least establish the facts – engage the owners – rather than jumping to conclusions and possibly doing something which embarrasses the club as a result.

If we don’t like the answers, or think the owners are trying to pull the wool over our eyes, then challenge them again to clarify it.

At least know where we stand.

Top of my head:

• Precise details of security for Kop Holdings loans, what it’s secured against.
• Details of how each part of loan will be financed, particularly if we don’t qualify for the CL
• Understanding of how transfer funds will be affected in such a scenario.
• Precise details for raising finance for stadium, and when.
• Contingency plans if club makes insufficient money to pay interest on loans.

I’m sure I can think of more. In fact, **** it, I might just send an e-mail like this over the next few days….

[Tom]

Not quite what I meant.

Everyone is STILL making assumptions and speculating about certain matters.

Shouldn’t we at least establish the facts – engage the owners – rather than jumping to conclusions and possibly doing something which embarrasses the club as a result.

If we don’t like the answers, or think the owners are trying to pull the wool over our eyes, then challenge them again to clarify it.

At least know where we stand.

Top of my head:

• Precise details of security for Kop Holdings loans, what it’s secured against.
• Details of how each part of loan will be financed, particularly if we don’t qualify for the CL
• Understanding of how transfer funds will be affected in such a scenario.
• Precise details for raising finance for stadium, and when.
• Contingency plans if club makes insufficient money to pay interest on loans.

Funny you should say that....

[jrd7]

Not quite what I meant.

Everyone is STILL making assumptions and speculating about certain matters.

Shouldn’t we at least establish the facts – engage the owners – rather than jumping to conclusions and possibly doing something which embarrasses the club as a result.

If we don’t like the answers, or think the owners are trying to pull the wool over our eyes, then challenge them again to clarify it.

At least know where we stand.

Top of my head:

• Precise details of security for Kop Holdings loans, what it’s secured against.
• Details of how each part of loan will be financed, particularly if we don’t qualify for the CL• Understanding of how transfer funds will be affected in such a scenario.
• Precise details for raising finance for stadium, and when.
• Contingency plans if club makes insufficient money to pay interest on loans.
I’m sure I can think of more. In fact, **** it, I might just send an e-mail like this over the next few days….

That's where your argument falls at the first hurdle. With all the **** flying around about this loan, do you think for one second, that the PR company employing, asset stripping cunt would have waisted an opportunity to say "Look everyone the press were wrong. As we agreed at the outset, we would be paying for the club, not you guys. We'll need a loan for the stadium but we'll help all we can"

They refused to answer questions about it, both his representatives in the PC, and Hicks on the radio. If you're wrongfully accused of murder (of our club), but you were at a party all night with 100's of guests, you're probably better off telling the cops before they strap to the bed and send you to sleep.

Your clarification request is perfectly ok from our side, but the fact he hasn't and won't provide any, speaks volumes.

****ing Cunts can **** off out :bird:

[el matador]

I heard the Tom Hicks interview on Radio 5 live on sunday morning and I could tell he wasnt telling the truth.

In some ways I wanted to believe him when he said that

- rafa wouldnt be sacked
- the team would be competitive
- rafa would be backed in the transfer market

but most importantly that our club wasnt going to become another Leeds United. Its the thing that we all fear the most - that at some stage we might lose one of the things that we all love the most - Liverpool FC.

The level of debt heaped upon the club is absolutely astonishing given our turnover and net profits. When are we actually expected to pay back the initial £350m that was borrowed let alone the interest on this. Liverpool FC could be in debt for the next 25 years.

I dont have any faith in Hicks because he is only in this for the money - traditional owners of football clubs have tried to balance the financial side of the club with the performances on the pitch and the fans interests.

Unfortunately, Hicks only thinks about money as his "Global TV and internet" quote revealed. He is not a fan and despite his deep 'passion' for Liverpool I cannot see us being able to compete with Arsenal, man u and chelsea over the forthcoming seasons.

Dont know what else to say - very disappointed with the owners...

[disco]

That's where your argument falls at the first hurdle. With all the **** flying around about this loan, do you think for one second, that the PR company employing, asset stripping cunt would have waisted an opportunity to say "Look everyone the press were wrong. As we agreed at the outset, we would be paying for the club, not you guys. We'll need a loan for the stadium but we'll help all we can"

They refused to answer questions about it, both his representatives in the PC, and Hicks on the radio. If you're wrongfully accused of murder (of our club), but you were at a party all night with 100's of guests, you're probably better off telling the cops before they strap to the bed and send you to sleep.

Your clarification request is perfectly ok from our side, but the fact he hasn't and won't provide any, speaks volumes.

****ing Cunts can **** off out :bird:

How can you say they 'won't provide any' when no-one's tried, or at least no-one's had a decent attempt (via a unified, constructive, supporter's group seeking answers - not making threats)

I think your final sentence speaks volumes - there's clearly no reasoning with you.

[AFII]

How can you say they 'won't provide any' when no-one's tried, or at least no-one's had a decent attempt (via a unified, constructive, supporter's group seeking answers - not making threats)

I think your final sentence speaks volumes - there's clearly no reasoning with you.

BBC sent him an email according to five live but he has so far not responded to it.

BBC asked him before the interview if he would answer any questions about it, he declined to do it.

That's two very decent attempts.