Mascherano developments

[The Birdman]

I'd sell Xabi to keep Mascher

[Guest]

Goody gum drops, another rumour for the halfwits to get hysterical about.

lmao

[LadyRed]

I'd sell Xabi to keep Mascher

Sell Xabi? *gasps*

Never. Sell Momo, keep Mascherano and Xabi.

[rushscored4]

Mascherano is undoubtedly a terrific tackler but he is nowhere near a complete midfield player and is incredibly weak going forward. He is, effectively, a sweeper who plays in front of the back four - like Makalele was at Madrid and Chelsea.

That type of player naturally protects your defence and reduces the number of goals conceded but means that half your outfield players are defensive rather than offensive. It is noticeable that Chelsea have improved when going forward since they stopped playing Makalele in that role.

For £17m, whether that is the transfer fee or the whole package including wages, I would expect more than a player who can tackle well. For that sort of money we could get a quality striker, winger or attacking midfielder each of whom would improve us as a team far more than Mascherano does, especially as we have Alonso and Lucas who can also play that role yet still offer a better option going forward.

These stories about him being linked with other clubs are obviously spun by his agents who are looking for another big bonus in the summer.

[alunevans]

Mascherano is undoubtedly a terrific tackler but he is nowhere near a complete midfield player and is incredibly weak going forward. He is, effectively, a sweeper who plays in front of the back four - like Makalele was at Madrid and Chelsea.

That type of player naturally protects your defence and reduces the number of goals conceded but means that half your outfield players are defensive rather than offensive. It is noticeable that Chelsea have improved when going forward since they stopped playing Makalele in that role.

For £17m, whether that is the transfer fee or the whole package including wages, I would expect more than a player who can tackle well. For that sort of money we could get a quality striker, winger or attacking midfielder each of whom would improve us as a team far more than Mascherano does, especially as we have Alonso and Lucas who can also play that role yet still offer a better option going forward.

These stories about him being linked with other clubs are obviously spun by his agents who are looking for another big bonus in the summer.

I think you're underestimating Masher's qualities to be honest. He's defensively minded yes, but there's so much more to him than that in my view.

[dww]

Mascherano is undoubtedly a terrific tackler but he is nowhere near a complete midfield player and is incredibly weak going forward. He is, effectively, a sweeper who plays in front of the back four - like Makalele was at Madrid and Chelsea.

That type of player naturally protects your defence and reduces the number of goals conceded but means that half your outfield players are defensive rather than offensive. It is noticeable that Chelsea have improved when going forward since they stopped playing Makalele in that role.

For £17m, whether that is the transfer fee or the whole package including wages, I would expect more than a player who can tackle well. For that sort of money we could get a quality striker, winger or attacking midfielder each of whom would improve us as a team far more than Mascherano does, especially as we have Alonso and Lucas who can also play that role yet still offer a better option going forward.

These stories about him being linked with other clubs are obviously spun by his agents who are looking for another big bonus in the summer.

I more or less agree with alot of what you say but would add that potentially a player in the midfield sweeper role can allow you to play more offensive players elsewhere. In particular more attacking fullbacks and/or wide players who track back less are much easier to include in a side. For me the best football Chelsea have playing the attacking sense was with Makelele in the side and Duff and Robben up front with much of teh teams width coming from the fullbacks which was (in part) easier to accoodate without loosing their highly impressive defensive solidity because of Makelele.

The strongest squad in the division is Uniteds which has a full complement of different styles of CM. Including Hargreaves in the Mascher mould and having that option in my opinion is exceptionally useful.

The problem is that I think that having Alonso in a deep role (more similar to Carrick last year or Flamini this) helps make a more balanced team at present. It is a tough call re: whether £17m would be better spent further forward or like United we are better off buying exceptional players no matter what when they are available and waiting to compile a more complete team.

I actuallt think we would be much better of right now with Gerrard moved our right and Alonso/Mascher in the centre. Although Xabi hasn't looked match fit since his injury and it may take time for him to be ready and Gerrrad seems to never want to play on the right again which is IMO a shame.

[rushscored4]

I think you're underestimating Masher's qualities to be honest. He's defensively minded yes, but there's so much more to him than that in my view.

Like what? He can pass to a player nearby but he dosn't play long, incisive passes. How many assists has he got? And I reckon Pepe's got more chance of scoring than Mascherano!

Don't get me wrong, Al, I think he's the best in the business at what he does (as I described above) but my point is that IMHO for a £17m player being a great tackler simply isn't good enough.

[rushscored4]

I more or less agree with alot of what you say but would add that potentially a player in the midfield sweeper role can allow you to play more offensive players elsewhere. In particular more attacking fullbacks and/or wide players who track back less are much easier to include in a side. For me the best football Chelsea have playing the attacking sense was with Makelele in the side and Duff and Robben up front with much of teh teams width coming from the fullbacks which was (in part) easier to accoodate without loosing their highly impressive defensive solidity because of Makelele.

The strongest squad in the division is Uniteds which has a full complement of different styles of CM. Including Hargreaves in the Mascher mould and having that option in my opinion is exceptionally useful.

The problem is that I think that having Alonso in a deep role (more similar to Carrick last year or Flamini this) helps make a more balanced team at present. It is a tough call re: whether £17m would be better spent further forward or like United we are better off buying exceptional players no matter what when they are available and waiting to compile a more complete team.

I actuallt think we would be much better of right now with Gerrard moved our right and Alonso/Mascher in the centre. Although Xabi hasn't looked match fit since his injury and it may take time for him to be ready and Gerrrad seems to never want to play on the right again which is IMO a shame.

Some excellent points, many of which I agree with which will surprise a few people!

You're right about a Mascher/Makalele type player allowing others to go forward but unfortunately you need two good wingers or overlapping defenders to make that system effective. And, sadly, we've got neither...

I also think Gerrard is more effective when he starts out wide right but he is so desperate to be involved in the middle we sometimes get overcrowded in midfield when he plays there.

[Pablo]

Like what? He can pass to a player nearby but he dosn't play long, incisive passes. How many assists has he got? And I reckon Pepe's got more chance of scoring than Mascherano!

Don't get me wrong, Al, I think he's the best in the business at what he does (as I described above) but my point is that IMHO for a £17m player being a great tackler simply isn't good enough.

You're going to start another big argument again . Stick to your insider duties and go and make a mock up of the new Stadium for us on Microsoft paint.

Cheers in advance.

[redlancer]

I really don't see the problem in waiting till till closer the loan deal is finished.

Pre Chrimbo was it 17M upfront or in installments?
If it was upfront waiting a month has made it installments

Waiting 5/6 months saves 1/2M in interest

And with the player wanting to stay with us should we be forking out 17M for him? We must be able to get it lower.

[dww]

Some excellent points, many of which I agree with which will surprise a few people!

You're right about a Mascher/Makalele type player allowing others to go forward but unfortunately you need two good wingers or overlapping defenders to make that system effective. And, sadly, we've got neither...

I also think Gerrard is more effective when he starts out wide right but he is so desperate to be involved in the middle we sometimes get overcrowded in midfield when he plays there.

It is a problem that all of the players we have to play behind Torres are both centrally inclined or in the case of Kuyt prone to dropping too deep where our play is already conjested.

A few seasons back in one of his brief periods back in the team Kewell balanced Gerrard very well by switching to give width on the appropriate side. His legs have gone this season though and no one else has the intelligence to do it. I think Benayoun and Babel have many of the right ingredients but they haven't done it for us yet.

I think we could afford to release Aurelio and Arbeloa/Finnan to go forward more. They aren't Roberto Carlos or Cafu like but they are all capable of offering a bit of added width and in Aurelio and Finann's cases have excellent crossing ability. At the minute though most of our players look to be afraid to take the initiative.

[AFII]

Like what? He can pass to a player nearby but he dosn't play long, incisive passes. How many assists has he got? And I reckon Pepe's got more chance of scoring than Mascherano!

Don't get me wrong, Al, I think he's the best in the business at what he does (as I described above) but my point is that IMHO for a £17m player being a great tackler simply isn't good enough.

Masch plays as a central midfielder and not holding midfielder for Argentina in an excellent way so he can do that for us if Rafa want him to.

It's all about the tactic and what Rafa want.

[rushscored4]

You're going to start another big argument again . Stick to your insider duties and go and make a mock up of the new Stadium for us on Microsoft paint. Cheers in advance.

As long as you stick to being your usual happy-go-lucky cheery little self...

[Johnny]

I really don't see the problem in waiting till till closer the loan deal is finished.

Pre Chrimbo was it 17M upfront or in installments?
If it was upfront waiting a month has made it installments

Waiting 5/6 months saves 1/2M in interest

And with the player wanting to stay with us should we be forking out 17M for him? We must be able to get it lower.

[rushscored4]

Masch plays as a central midfielder and not holding midfielder for Argentina in an excellent way so he can do that for us if Rafa want him to. It's all about the tactic and what Rafa want.

I realise he plays a different role for Argentina but, with respect, you get far more time on the ball at international level than in the Premiership. From what I've seen on Mascher over the last 12 months for Liverpool he is totally ineffective going forward.

I am not saying he isn't a good player nor am I saying we shouldn't try to sign him. What I am saying is that I would expect a more complete midfielder for £17m. I personally would only value Mascherano at about £10m - £12m.